Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Welcome to I Love It Here, a place where we discuss and share our thoughts on various topics, all focused on making life and work a better experience for everyone.

Caleb (00:00:12) - Hello and welcome to I Love It Here, a place where we aim to inspire people through our shared interest of making work and life a little better. So without further ado, let's get into our conversation this month. I'm just, um. I'm searching around for a gratitude. What's, uh, what's on your list at the minute? Jonathan?

Jonathan (00:00:34) - Um, I'm really grateful for the builders that are working at our house. They're doing an amazing job. They are, um. They are they they're taking their initiative. They've been really communicative, and, uh, they're just a thoroughly nice chaps. They're crawling all over our roof and, uh, and putting some new tiles on, but, you.

Caleb (00:00:51) - Know, it's a tea.

Jonathan (00:00:52) - Um, they're not drinking lots of tea. They are. They they are just making the whole process feel really easy.

Jonathan (00:00:58) - And they're doing a great job. And so often when you have work like that done, it can be, um, it can be challenging. And this so far has not been that way. So I'm really grateful for them this month.

Paul (00:01:10) - Was it your was it your choice to to get the roof done or is it like a like getting fixed or having solar panels? What's the deal?

Jonathan (00:01:19) - The deal is that the house is the house is a couple of hundred years old and has got, um, has got slates on the like proper, proper Welsh slate I think was on there. It's very, very old and, um, every time, I don't know if you've noticed, but the weather's been getting a little bit kind of more unpredictable over the last few years, and the wind has been blowing a lot harder. I think it's very predictable.

Caleb (00:01:42) - It's rubbish.

Speaker 5 (00:01:43) - Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan (00:01:45) - So, so every every couple of years we have a good gust of wind and it blows a few tiles off and we've had to have those tiles put back, but we've reached a point where it, it's just going to be better to get it all done as have it done all in one go, as opposed to having it done every year, having it repaired every couple of years.

Jonathan (00:02:01) - So that's why they're up there. Hopefully when they're gone, we won't have any more bother with, uh, troublesome weather and little patches of water appearing on the ceiling.

Caleb (00:02:11) - Oh, God. I think my, um, my personal challenge with building work is always the knowing when to stop.

Paul (00:02:20) - A knowing when to stop. That's your personal challenge with building work?

Caleb (00:02:25) - Well, I, I struggle with the, um, disorder, so, like, we're having some work in the garden, and the patio is all upside down. The farmer self wanting to go out and tidy it up to these sort of just confused looks from the builders going, what are you doing? We're just going to mess it up in a minute. I know, but it makes me feel better. So it's just clear off, will you?

Jonathan (00:02:50) - Well, thankfully, because all of the work is taking place kind of outside and on top of the house, there's not much chaos with us at the moment. Thankfully, it's just a room full of.

Caleb (00:02:59) - Well, it still drives me mad.

Paul (00:03:02) - What about you, Caleb? What are you grateful for?

Caleb (00:03:05) - Uh, well, on that theme, actually, I think I've referred to this in the past, but I am a very basic level of DIY, and I've tiled some of tiled around a new, um, sink and basin unit in the toilet downstairs toilet. And we treat ourselves to a coffee machine the other way. And Amanda said, now we can't have that unless we have tiles at the side. So yeah, I can do that. So yeah, putting new tiles at the side of the wall. So, um, I'm grateful for, um, confirming that I have got an ability to do some DIY work in the house without it looking like a load of rubbish.

Paul (00:03:48) - Oh that's cool. Did you have the little spacers for the tiles and everything?

Caleb (00:03:51) - Yeah, I'm learning about, um, the different types of spaces that you can get as well for floor tiles and wall tiles and how you do that.

Caleb (00:04:01) - And, um, and the joys of not using ready made grout and using powdered grout and mixing it all up. So, oh, helpful tips. And it must have been all right because my son is looking to buy a house. And he said, um, actually, are you open to do some tiling in their house then?

Speaker 5 (00:04:20) - So I, I think.

Paul (00:04:24) - Oh, nice.

Speaker 5 (00:04:25) - Hey, what about you.

Caleb (00:04:27) - Christy?

Paul (00:04:28) - Um, well, I've had a birthday, mate, so mine's easy this week. Month? Um, so it was my birthday last weekend, and they just you they just. The girls just sort stuff out, don't they? Unbeknownst to me, they said, what do you want? I don't want anything. I can't think of anything I want or need. And we almost at that point, aren't we? Where? That sounds really flippant, doesn't it? But if you want something, you pretty much buy it for yourself throughout the year if you need to. And then I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking, yeah, don't buy that for yourself.

Paul (00:05:00) - Because just put it on your list. So I started making a bit of a list, and then there was some really nice stuff that they bought. Um, and some of the stuff, some of the bits that they bought were things that they'd been me with me when I've gone, oh, quite like that and then put it back. Never. But they were like, make a note, which was really good. Um, yeah. So we went over to Cambridge. Um, I had a really good day there. Um, my older daughter, who's obviously uni there, um, good night out. It was, it was just really nice not having to plan anything. There's always this worry with, with just before my birthday with Clare saying that's my wife Clare. Sorry. You two probably know people. Other people probably don't say, um, well, what do you want to do on a day? And I, I know this sounds really bizarre, but for me that's like, well, you organise something that's your job in it.

Paul (00:05:45) - And she went, no, no, no, it's your birthday. You need to tell me what you want to do. And I'll say, well, you know, the sort of things I like. So anyway, left it all completely up to them when it did me part one in the morning, got home and they said, go and get changed because we're off to here and we're doing this and we're doing that. So yeah, I think I'm grateful for people who just sort of understand and get me a little bit.

Caleb (00:06:05) - I think, I think that's the, uh, the aspiration in life and to surround yourself with people that just get you.

Paul (00:06:12) - Yeah. Just just like, and if I was to say, you know, oh, we did this and people like, really, what do you want to do that for? But no, it was really, really good. So um, and I've got some Lego, which is great. And including, um, some Lego plants, which I've not, not built Lego plants before, but, um, they were really cool.

Paul (00:06:32) - Yeah, I was at big.

Jonathan (00:06:34) - Are they. What sort of.

Paul (00:06:36) - Well, they actually do, they actually do all different sizes. But this comes from I was at Battersea Power Station, um, working a few weeks back, and there's a new brand new Lego store there, and it was the only one in the UK where they've built a, a Lego florists. So basically the whole thing, it just looks like a florist. It's like bunches of roses and there's all of these different bits and, um. We bought my eldest daughter. She. She likes plants and she likes Lego as well, oddly. But we bought her an orchid for Christmas. Like a Lego orchid, which she can have at university. And it obviously doesn't die when she's not there. It makes sense because it's obviously made of Lego. But anyway. But I look for her. She absolutely loves it. And when you see it, I mean, it's a good like, you know, fair sized plant. Um, but the ones I've got are like, like little cacti.

Paul (00:07:23) - Um, they're probably about so big and in little pots you wouldn't honestly, unless you walk up to it close, you'd think, oh, okay, it's got a couple of cacti there. But no, they're obviously Lego. Um, having said all of that, I'm waiting for to see if my wife can kill them because she kills every other plant. And I think she'll see it as a challenge to try and kill a Lego plant.

Caleb (00:07:43) - I'll be when she's dusting.

Paul (00:07:45) - No, I, I said to her. I actually sent her a message and said, oh, you're not going to be at a quarry. She said, you you sound you sound very confident in that. I thought, no, you probably could. So yes. So if there's a dead Lego plant in a couple of weeks, it wouldn't surprise me.

Caleb (00:08:02) - It would be somebody else's fault with it.

Paul (00:08:05) - It's just rubbish with plants. I don't know what it is. She goes, I don't understand it. I water it every day and I'm thinking it could be a problem.

Jonathan (00:08:12) - Perhaps that's perhaps the problem.

Speaker 5 (00:08:14) - Exactly.

Jonathan (00:08:15) - Some plants don't like it. They don't like the water every day.

Speaker 5 (00:08:19) - No.

Paul (00:08:20) - Yeah. No. Yeah. That's so expensive. Like I looked at the Lego ones and thought actually they're not far off the price of like, a plant plant, you know. So anyway, yeah, that's what I've been for longer. I've done that. And then the other thing I thought of and this has got to help randoms this as I was drinking my tea earlier. I just suddenly thought to myself, I made a mental note thinking, if we ever and I don't know why we have the would if we ever do merchandise for this show, for goodness sake, we need to put the logos on the wrong side of the cups because I'm thinking, what's that all about? So do you put the logo so it faces me. So I'm drinking it. I've got it. But I think you should do it the other way around. Or put it on both.

Caleb (00:09:01) - Sides to drink out of.

Caleb (00:09:02) - Surely.

Paul (00:09:03) - Oh, yeah, but not all of us are left handed. What?

Caleb (00:09:09) - We want is an ambidextrous.

Paul (00:09:13) - Right arm to be a dexterous mate.

Speaker 6 (00:09:18) - You know why?

Speaker 5 (00:09:20) - Yeah. Well, so.

Jonathan (00:09:23) - What is the mug test day? I didn't quite catch the logo.

Paul (00:09:26) - Oh, no, it is a you know, it's completely irrelevant. It is a Blue Monday podcast mug, actually. And I was sent because it was a an Ipswich Town related podcast that I was asked to appear on, and they sent me a mug as a thank you. And then I was on it and thinking kind of, is your logo bit naff really?

Caleb (00:09:45) - But you didn't think to change your hand?

Paul (00:09:47) - Well, I did, but yeah, that would have.

Jonathan (00:09:49) - Resulted in hot fluid down the front.

Paul (00:09:52) - You're opening up another huge can of worms. Trust me, this is as close to my computer as ever getting. I'm not going to use my wrong. And just to keep you happy.

Jonathan (00:10:00) - Throwing drinks in the face.

Caleb (00:10:02) - Honestly, if anyone's late to the party, you've joined the Porcelain Manufacturing podcast. You just reminded me about Lego at Battersea. Austin. My son, um, uh, he does some conference barista work, and he did some work for jelly Cat. Um, last year, I think it was. And he sent me a couple of photos and jelly Cat got this stand in Harrogate. Um, I think it's Harrogate Convention Centre. They literally decked out this stand and it was like, um, a cafe. So obviously using the jelly cat doughnuts and croissants and everything, and they stacked it up like display. It looked amazing.

Paul (00:10:50) - That's really cool. Yeah, that's really neat. Yeah.

Caleb (00:10:53) - It was in his element though in that. Yeah.

Paul (00:10:58) - Anyway, that's what I'm grateful for. What about what we're talking about today? Jonathan, I believe you had a quote for us.

Jonathan (00:11:04) - I do have a quote I've been reading, which is really unusual. I've been reading this book, which is a by Barak, Barak Obama and the great Bruce Springsteen.

Jonathan (00:11:15) - Oh, yeah. Yeah. During lockdown, during lockdown, they apparently had a podcast that I didn't I didn't get to sit down with this conversation that they've they've said again.

Caleb (00:11:24) - Hey.

Jonathan (00:11:26) - Who'd have thunk it? And apparently, you know, as I read, I find out they've got a lot in common. Um, but the introduction to the book is like half a dozen paragraphs by, um, by Barack Obama. And, um, and I was just really struck sometimes I really struggle to explain what I love it here podcast is about, um, because we go to so many different places. Um, but this really resonated with me about what we do. And so it goes. He writes as follows. Good conversations don't follow a script like a good song. They're full of surprises, improvisations, detours. They may be grounded in a specific time and place, reflecting your current state of mind and the current state of the world. But the best conversations also have a timeless quality, taking you back into the realm of memory, propelling you forward towards your hopes and dreams.

Jonathan (00:12:18) - Sharing stories reminds you that you're not alone and maybe helps you understand yourself a little better. And I just really loved that. Wow, that was really fantastic.

Caleb (00:12:29) - What that says to me is our podcast should be fucking brilliant.

Paul (00:12:33) - Should be we must be going strong. It must be in the edit. It all goes wrong. Yeah, absolutely. No. I'll tell you what exactly. We haven't got a great deal of planning going on. I tell you what, Jonathan, are you reading that I. I've got to try and sort of tie it back to my sort of day job or our day job. I think what you've done for me, what you've just highlighted there, is the difference between being in a classroom where you facilitate and you listen and the conversation goes about, a conversation needs to go first is someone who's massively scripted and doesn't want to take it, you know, slightly off piste if you like. And those conversations are always so much better, aren't they? When people are actually talking about things as they come up? Right?

Caleb (00:13:19) - Well, yes.

Paul (00:13:20) - I think when you.

Caleb (00:13:21) - That's a conversation. Right? Is. Yeah, exactly. You know, when someone's listening and someone's contributing, you know throughout that that's I think that's the art of conversing really. Um because. I suppose we live in a society where we we want to get from A to B really quickly, and actually it's the stuff in the middle that makes an enriching life, I think, is that, you know, you sort of forget almost about getting to be for a period of time and you go, let's enjoy that journey.

Jonathan (00:13:56) - Absolutely. I mean, those days, there are there are times when I'm working where I think to myself when I take out. When I'm aware that I can be so focused on the goal that I miss all the joy in between.

Speaker 5 (00:14:12) - Yeah.

Jonathan (00:14:14) - And when I stop focusing on the goal and being really determined to get there and allow days to kind of roll, I still get to the goal. It's just often there's a lot more joy in between the start of the day and the end of the day.

Speaker 5 (00:14:28) - Yeah.

Paul (00:14:29) - The results I find sometimes as well. You actually, you're actually more productive if you don't focus on the end goal, if that makes sense. I don't know if we've discussed this before, so it sounds really peculiar thing to say. I was doing a, um, uh, like a business planning session with, with a group a couple of weeks back. And when I said to the, uh, the organizer, because what are you trying to do? And I said, well, they've all written their business plans for the year. Um, and obviously we do that every year and usually comes from October, November time. We get the folder back off the team, put it in this, this word. But I pretty much said, we get the folder back off the shelf and go, oh yeah, we should have done something with that, shouldn't we? But I've spent so long actually writing it in the first place, and we don't want that to happen this year. We want it to be different.

Paul (00:15:13) - And we're going to this conversation of. So maybe the goals aren't right. So, well, maybe the goals are right, but you're focusing too much on them. And she gave me that weird double takes. What do you mean? I said, well, and we used the analogy of um, it was the, um, African Cup of Nations, a football tournament that was on it at a time. So it was a couple of weeks back. Try to use that as an analogy. And I said, um, so what was the goal of every team that's in that tournament then? And she said, well, I don't know. I said, no, you do. No. Why are any of them in that tournament? And she said, well, I don't know anything about football. I said, what is it? It's irrelevant. Um, they all want to win the tournament. Well, obviously, yes. I said, right, but only one of them's going to. So the ones that don't.

Paul (00:16:02) - Does that mean their goal wasn't as good as everyone else? She went, oh no, no, it's nothing to do with that. Is it to do with how good the players are? It's more than that. And it's how it's basically what systems have they got in place? They're going to help him. It could be training, it could be tactics, it could be all of these different things. But ultimately the goals, the high level thing that stays the same, it's the bits in between that make it successful or not. And you're right. I think sometimes we'll look at it and go, this is where I want to get to. And we just keep looking at that every day. And that's what I want to get. I don't get it, but you need those little wins along the way. And usually the reason you don't reach the goal is because there's some sort of system failure somewhere else. And you're right. And if you can enjoy doing that as you go, then then all the better, right?

Speaker 5 (00:16:44) - Well.

Caleb (00:16:45) - It depends if that. And that goal is everyone bought into it, I guess is, you know, there's so in larger organizations, there's so many people that are told this is what the goal is, but are they really bought into that or are they really being part of.

Paul (00:17:02) - Yeah. And and not everyone can make that goal. I set that goal. I get that. But maybe they need to at least be sold. The vision of why they've why that's the goal, right?

Caleb (00:17:11) - Yeah. And I suppose that's you know, when you're thinking about corporate stuff that that might be, you know, a purpose is more powerful than an actual goal because goals could be just stepping stones to get to that. But then you're bore in more to it. And then that's where you if you're bought into a purpose, that's where you start connecting with people with like minded purposes and then have those really engaging conversations. And and I guess when you think about, you know, when you have a I'm just thinking in my world sometimes I love just sort of asking for someone for a catcher, should we just have a catch up, you know, and, and those people that you connect with on a regular basis or just go, oh yeah, let's do it.

Caleb (00:18:00) - I love having a chat and a coffee that the people that you're not as close to and comfortable with, we'll immediately go, why, what what should we ever catch up about? Yeah, yeah.

Paul (00:18:11) - What do I need to prep what we're talking about, what do I.

Caleb (00:18:14) - Yeah, it takes some time to get over to that to go I don't know, I don't want to waste your time. And there's there's obviously a reason why we connect, but we connect from a personality point of view and a shared, you know, shared connection. Yeah. You know, I've had a couple of conversations this week where I've just said, oh, let's have a catch. Yeah, let's do that. And like you just go, what you been up to, you know, and it goes different ways. And then something falls out of that. Yeah. That's why we're always talking to one another.

Speaker 5 (00:18:49) - I think it's.

Paul (00:18:49) - Very rare that you have any of those conversations you have, and you both sit there in silence going, yeah, nothing to talk about really.

Paul (00:18:54) - It just never happens. It just doesn't.

Jonathan (00:18:58) - It's really interesting though, because those type of conversations, if you if you're in a in a professional capacity, just justifying just having a conversation with somebody is really hard, isn't it? If if the if the if the if there's not an objective, we get a bit kind of caught up sometimes on on having an objective for something needing a focus. But if every if that, if those conversations take place when they deliver value, then we should just have those conversations okay. Kind of. Can you hear the cement mixer in your yard?

Speaker 5 (00:19:30) - I can I just wondering.

Caleb (00:19:32) - What you.

Speaker 5 (00:19:32) - Mean to me. Is this is.

Jonathan (00:19:34) - There something going on inside?

Paul (00:19:37) - I made a mess again. Have they?

Speaker 5 (00:19:38) - Yeah, they did.

Jonathan (00:19:41) - That. Half a dozen dump boards across the garden. Now looks like the some.

Paul (00:19:46) - Do you know what, Jonathan? There's something in that, though, isn't there? Because I think there is that, um, whether it's true or not, there's this idea that everyone's really busy and just having a 20 minute chat with them.

Paul (00:19:57) - I'm wasting their time. I always find it really bizarre when I asked for a catch up with someone, or suggest we have a catch up with someone and it's going to be like 15 minutes and they're like, yeah, I'm busy till Thursday week. And you think, really? Can you not find ten minutes at any point in the next? You know, and it's like you're why do you need to catch up? That goes back to your point. It's like, I don't know, I want to catch up because we haven't before. I don't know if you.

Jonathan (00:20:24) - When like little, I'm trying to remember the habit in Covey seven Habits of Highly Effective People. There's a habit. It's it's one he talks about. Um, it's when he talks about, uh, the is it called the Eisenhower matrix worries comparing urgent and important. And what's urgent and important.

Paul (00:20:42) - Eisenhower. Yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah.

Jonathan (00:20:44) - It talks it talks about, um, the, the time we spend doing things that are not urgent and important to where the real magic happens.

Jonathan (00:20:51) - Because when we're, we're prioritizing, um. Relationship because he talks about in the book about what's important is our relationships with one another. Not necessarily. Um, the to do list. And I guess that's what we're talking about, isn't it? It's about prioritizing relationship over some of the, the, some of the things that need to be done. And, and having a 15 minute catch up is prioritizing a relationship with with with someone. It's about prioritizing connection.

Caleb (00:21:21) - I think. The. This is, um. Falls into sort of part of what I've been talking about this week, actually. So I is obviously all the bars it has been for the last, you know, year or so. And I'm really of the opinion and I keep saying this is that. Preethi. We seem to have got into this habit of saying what you know. What's the, um. What's the process? What do I need to follow? Have we got a policy around that? You know, so it's very regimented what humans do and a lot of organizations still favor.

Caleb (00:22:05) - What's the input you're doing? What's the, you know, the productivity rather than what's the creative output and and what's the value you're adding. And, and what we're saying here is that it feels like, you know, now we're going actually the the conversation and the connection is the priority. And that feels really right to me because actually all the process and deadline and stuff in the future, you should go. That's what I is there for, to keep us on track to do the process, the boring, mundane stuff our human superpower is talking. Engage in thinking differently, coming up with mad ideas that I can't. But connection is something we really need to get a grip on too, because there's so many people that have lost the ability to just have a really positive, engaging conversation with one another.

Paul (00:23:01) - It's really bizarre, as you're saying, that. I mean, I'm sort of nodding along. I've been using AI myself quite a lot in the last couple of weeks. I've been writing, um, a couple of courses and a couple of blog posts and, and and, you know, as I'm saying that I'm hoping people are listening to that going, well, that's cheating.

Paul (00:23:17) - I really hope they are thinking, thinking exactly that, because that's a conversation I've had with myself. But but you're absolutely right. The bit that the bit that you can't do, though, is that storytelling bit, the context bit the nuance bit that putting it in my mind, you know, the words that I use, that sort of my tone of voice, um, it just can't do anything. I know what I want it to, but you're right. So, yeah, you've given me all the facts and I know all the facts, and I'll check those because I'm a cynical sod. But at the same time, it can't do that storytelling bit. It can't do the communication, but it can't do yet any, any way, I would say so I'm totally with you if, if that can save me two hours a week, and in those two hours a week, I can sit down and have a chat with someone and learn something about what they're doing or, um, build up more, you know, a better rapport with them or find out more about them, I guess then I don't see how that's cheating.

Paul (00:24:11) - I can only see that as a good thing.

Caleb (00:24:14) - I think that's that's augmenting the stuff that you don't. This is how I see it, right? I only want to play in a space that I'm really good at and that I really enjoy. And, and the other stuff that needs to happen, there'll be someone else that really enjoys doing that and is really good at it. And if that happens to be AI, then great. If I am to be a human, then great. They might lean into AI to do that. Um, I just think, wouldn't it be great if everyone's doing what they enjoy and what they're really good at and and actually what humans should enjoy an awful lot is talking to other humans. But I'm I'm not convinced that I see that all the time. Like, I really enjoy a good conversation. I also enjoy some me time, but I then crave social interaction that says, ah, let's have a catch up and eat it.

Paul (00:25:11) - Do you think that's generational as well? Do you think that as and I'm not going to blame just Covid for this, but the fact that they've lost two years didn't exactly help.

Paul (00:25:19) - But and what I mean by that is I was having a conversation with, um, a couple of people last week who who said, oh, yeah, no, if you can email me because I really don't like answering the phone. And it was like a really odd and it could be face to face like this. But I think lots of people now would prefer on or even filling in a form for, I don't know, signing up for a website if they could get away without putting their mobile number on, they would, but they're quite happy for people to email them. And I don't understand necessarily what's driving that. Um.

Speaker 5 (00:25:55) - And I.

Paul (00:25:57) - And, you know, I'll finish the sentence off by saying the amount of times the phone rings and one of my daughters goes, who's this? All right. Well, I dunno if.

Speaker 5 (00:26:05) - You answer it.

Paul (00:26:06) - There you go. And that's what I'm thinking. I wonder if that is a generation thing and it's actually a setting isn't there on on iPhone anyway, which is only numbers in my contacts will make this phone ring.

Paul (00:26:18) - Well, I kind of get that. If you've got like your group of friends and and your family may be, but at some point the garage that's servicing the car is going to have to phone me, right? And they're not in my contacts list. So you're almost becoming uncontacted at that point. But I wonder if that is a generational thing.

Jonathan (00:26:35) - It's really interesting because I've had that frustration today, and I've been sat thinking, I need to get hold of these people. I'm trying to find a number to call them because I need to I the thing that I need to say is to nuanced for me to write this down. Yep. Because I'll spend three hours writing an email to to to make this make any sense. But actually three minutes of talking to somebody would resolve all of that. And I've tried to find numbers in emails and there's no telephone numbers in signatures, and and I've gone and the end I threw my hands up in the air and said, had a bit of a strop and said, this is just impossible.

Jonathan (00:27:13) - I, I'm not going to be able to do anything with this until until Monday. And I couldn't kind of. It's the first time where from a, I felt really frustrated that I couldn't communicate with, with, with other people that felt like there was just an obstacle to get communication, obstacle to getting this thing done. And it was all to do with not being able to just pick up the phone. And I felt like a right old misery guts as a result of that. And I've had to pull myself around and I thought, well, what is it? Is it my age? What is it, what is it?

Paul (00:27:46) - What? And that's what I'm asking. Maybe it is. Maybe. Maybe we are so out of touch with it that, you know, and you've got that classic you try and get a hold of, you know, Sky TV, for example, to change something in your package. You got no chance. But I tell you what, getting hold of them to add something is very, very straightforward.

Paul (00:28:02) - It's only but you become a bit cynical with it, don't you think? No. I just want to phone someone and ask them. But you think, yeah, but you can't just phone someone and I don't know why you can't.

Speaker 5 (00:28:11) - Yeah, I.

Caleb (00:28:12) - Mean, I have to say I've, I've had two, um, two moments this week where the only resolution has been to speak to someone on a, on a, on the phone and I just think.

Speaker 5 (00:28:26) - Um.

Caleb (00:28:28) - If everyone else is not communicating that way, then and I am. I have got an extra star on people because I get stuff done that way. So there's two things I had. We had a problem with something in the house, sent various emails, and in the end I've probably got like you were Jonathan thought I just bloody fine. Yeah, yeah. Just, you know, the only barrier to that was to sit on the phone for ten minutes before someone answered. But as soon as you get into a conversation, it's like, oh, I get you now, I'm really sorry.

Caleb (00:29:04) - We'll get it sorted. And the other one was we had a fabulous oh shit moment where we'd got some work, but I hadn't got someone to do it. And I sent an email and I thought, oh, as soon as I sent the email, I thought that that's not right. I picked up the phone. Someone answered and went, of course I can do that for you. And they got us out of a lot of bother. But, you know, I think. Always use teams as a default rather than text or WhatsApp or email. They're all at my disposal, and over the years I've learnt to understand who prefers what media my medium is, is teams. Because I can, you know, get to someone pretty quickly anywhere in the world and I still have face contact. Um, and then I think it's probably phone, then email, then text going down in that. Whereas I think, as you say, the generation is is flipped to that it's WhatsApp text or it's not even that it's Instagram.

Caleb (00:30:11) - You know, it's it's all these things that go, oh God, they're using that to communicate. You know, it's it's it's sort of non, uh, I can't see you, but I can, you know, articulate myself on this whether it's not very good. But I'll just say that's a positive opportunity for me to engage on a human level.

Paul (00:30:32) - And you know, it's even it's interesting you said teams there and I'm not picking up on the way you use teams because I'm probably very similar. Certainly if I'm talking to anyone at work, teams is just the go to um. But it's meant to be an asynchronous tool, isn't it? Where you post something there and they'll get back to you when they can. The amount of times you get a team's message going, are you free? Are you free? And then you get an email saying, I've just sent you something on teams. And then if they ever have to phone you, and I don't know that there's I think it needs to be a bit of an understanding of.

Paul (00:31:07) - Yeah, but I might be in the middle of something at the moment and I'll pick that up later. Whereas if you phone someone, at least you have the ability to be able to say, look, I'm just in the middle of something kind of phoned you later, or you could if I, if I phoned, oh no, if I found my wife and she doesn't answer the phone, the chances are she's probably busy doing something if I send her an email, which why would I do that? But anyway, if I did, she doesn't answer that for a couple of days, you know? I don't know. I think the sender almost needs to agree that the times go to expected people to come back as well, and I think that's part of the problem. You know, I'm talking about the younger generation. I'm talking about my daughters, to be honest. But they'll send me something they communicate with, with all of us via text to the point of. Making can be in a in a bedroom and send me a message saying, what time are you going out that when you think you could have literally shouted down the stairs, but it's just easier?

Speaker 5 (00:32:04) - Yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:32:04) - It's easier.

Caleb (00:32:04) - Yeah.

Paul (00:32:05) - It's just just just what she does. That's the way.

Caleb (00:32:08) - Although it's at all a disposal.

Speaker 5 (00:32:10) - Right.

Paul (00:32:10) - But do you know what was really strange following that on. And it's strange. You're right. They the tools people are using that maybe we don't use her and her friends don't even text each other anymore. Everything is either a well, that's not true. They use, say, iMessage, but they'll record a a short video or a, um, a sound file and they'll, they'll message those across to each other, which is even stranger because they literally are having a conversation, but it's a bit too late. I don't know, why do they feel safer doing that? It's strange. And she's saying, well, it's because I can't when I'm talking to them and they know if I'm being, you know, being, you know, teasing them off and being sarcastic or whatever, I can't do that with the text.

Speaker 5 (00:32:55) - All right.

Caleb (00:32:56) - Okay.

Paul (00:32:56) - And I've never thought of it like that before.

Caleb (00:32:59) - Well, maybe we ought to have a guest from in in air quotes from the younger generation.

Speaker 5 (00:33:06) - Yeah, let's.

Caleb (00:33:07) - Do that, old people.

Speaker 5 (00:33:09) - Yeah.

Paul (00:33:09) - That's right. Okay, I'll get one of my daughters to host and speak to you, too. Good luck with that.

Caleb (00:33:14) - They'll go. What the hell are these? What are these trustees doing?

Jonathan (00:33:17) - We'll be recorded. We'll be recording the show like this. Wesley.

Speaker 5 (00:33:21) - Will you say.

Paul (00:33:22) - That? I'll tell you what. I was going full circle here because my oldest daughter was the one that I had the conversation with about AI and saying, God, this would be fantastic for your studies. And she's like, no, I don't I don't believe in all that. No I don't. So, wow. So she's massively ahead of the curve in many things. And yet and I'm like, what do you do? Why not. What are you. She went no no no no. That'd be very frowned upon. I'd rather go to the library and read some books, which I like.

Paul (00:33:48) - I get it, but it's almost. I don't know. I think it's because it's not socially acceptable yet to say, yeah, I got AI to do that for me.

Caleb (00:33:59) - I think it depends what it is, because if you're creating images and stuff, I'm sure, you know, a lot of people go, well, you know, you see the advert on the Google phone, you know, they use an AI to edit photos and stuff. You know, I say they I'm really detached on this and like, I'm really old, you know, we are using it anyway. Yeah. Um, and I don't think that's a generational thing, I think. I do think there's a, um, I don't know about or I only know a way of communicating that I've learned in my experience. So this is lived experience in there, and my lived experience is different from someone who's, you know, 14 to 25 and, you know, as is their lived experience. And and so unless your eyes are open to that lived experience, then you're going to sort of do what you already know.

Caleb (00:34:57) - And I think maybe that's just the difference is there's a different experience set.

Paul (00:35:02) - It's weird because I think I think we've been drip fed a lot of this stuff. Um, and people don't realize that they're using AI on a daily basis. It's one of one, one of those. So, for example, you know, asking, I'm going to annoy everyone now by saying, Alexa, because I know I haven't gotten in this room, but yeah, like everyone looking around, hey, Alexa, set a 20 minute timer. So, you know, that's basically that that voice to a certain extent. You've got an assistant there that's listening to what you're saying. It's listening out for what you're doing, and it's setting that for you. I get that. Um, but then I was in the car the other day, and, um, I have CarPlay, um, obviously with Apple devices, and they've obviously added something. They haven't made a big song and dance about it because I didn't even know it was was different.

Paul (00:35:48) - But I got something that said I received a text message. Yep, that happens in the car and it reads it to me if I wanted to. And it said, um, um, Megan, my youngest daughter, Megan, sent you a picture of, um, a computer, a two computer screen showing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, what? Because normally in the car you get a thing that just says, um, Megan sent you a picture and you say, show me the picture because I can't do that while you're driving. Which makes sense. But now there's obviously another layer that's been added.

Caleb (00:36:18) - To.

Paul (00:36:18) - Interact. Yeah, the intercepts the picture looks at sees what's in the picture and then sends it on and we're in and she's going, no. And I said honestly and we were in the car together. I said, send me a picture now. It sent a picture and it said, um, Megan sent you a picture of a hand holding chopsticks, eating a bowl of ramen.

Paul (00:36:35) - And she was like, oh my God, this is so cool. And obviously something I there's no one sitting at Apple having a look at these pictures and quickly typing on what it is. And that's not happening. So, you know, there's things like that. What do you think. That's my that's really cool. That's a really good use for me. Yeah. Um, you know a of that AI stuff. So I think there's more and more of it that's happening. Um. Without people necessarily labeling it as such.

Jonathan (00:37:06) - Give us your top three then. If we want to, if we want to go away from this to to to start to explore AI. Those of us that have been reticent to do it, which which three things should be going try out just for fun to give us an example of.

Paul (00:37:22) - I mean, everyone's going to say ChatGPT, but I actually find it. It's a pain to get into, to be honest. Um. Are you. I've been messing around with, um, what's called Bard, which was Google's.

Paul (00:37:33) - It's now called Gemini. So Gemini google.com, um, which is basically, um, Google's take on AI. Um, and the reason I like that is, um, ChatGPT was great for images or it's great for text or it's whereas bard sort of. So Bard Gemini, as I now call it, sort of brings it all together. So for example, I can um, I can say, um, create me an outline for a course on menopause awareness, exactly as a real world example. And it said, you need to cover this and this and this and this and this. I said, okay, make it half an hour session. Okay, fine. Well here's the bits that you definitely need to cover then. And then you say, okay. Tell me more about this thing in particular. So if it does that. So tell me about HRT. Yeah. There you go. Um, what's the downside to that then? And I think that's where the prompts change. Because you need to then start questioning, going about how else could this work and then embark because it's so lovely.

Paul (00:38:30) - It's all just in a, in a, in a stream, like you're having an ongoing conversation. You could then say, summarize this in a table for me. And it's just and it does. And there, there you go. Builds that nice table. And then you say, I need to create an e-learning piece for this. Show me some images. And of course it's going to go away because all Google do a Google image search and go, here's all the images that you can use and the the best bit about it. For me, I'm a bit bit of a limited use perhaps. I say show me the table you just created in Polish and it's like, bosh, there you go.

Speaker 5 (00:39:02) - Wow.

Paul (00:39:03) - And all of a sudden I'm thinking, yeah, this is save me hours and hours and hours of work now on an a cynical person could say, yeah, but you don't know if the polish is right. Well, no, but I don't know that the whatever's right either. And the other thing I really like with, with Gemini is that when it gives you one of the answers or one of the, you know, they say it gives you a block of text, you can highlight or hover over any of that text.

Paul (00:39:30) - It tells you where it referenced it from, which is really nice. So it can say this was from an article in, you know, uh, whatever business review or this is from Stanford University and here's a document. So, so it gives it some credibility. Um, it's just really, really nice. So that's the first one is, is, um, Gemini the other one, if you have an iPhone, the best use I can find so far for um, I there's a new browser doing the rounds at the moment called ask ICRC. Um, we won't get into the browser bit, but they've got a, a, an app for the iPhone called Ask Search. And literally you just put in it opens like like a browser normally would, but think how think why you would use a browser. Most people open a browser and ask it a question to find out information.

Speaker 5 (00:40:19) - Yeah.

Paul (00:40:21) - And as soon as you've done that, obviously it gives you a Google, um, results with, say, 20, 50, a thousand links to click on and you have to decide which one to click.

Paul (00:40:29) - So the way art works is it says, well, I don't know why you're doing that because you're always you want me to summarise this for you anyway so you can put in a search. You go into ask and it opens up ask search. Sorry. And it literally opens up a search bar and you say, um, what are the best uses for Lego in what? No, whatever. And basically as it's going, it's picking up like you could see six, seven, eight, nine, ten websites it's reading from. And it creates like a summary web page for you and says, here's, here's everything I've found about that. And it's so lovely, so nicely laid out. It just does everything you're using a browser for, to the point of, I've made it my default browser on the phone now, and you think, oh, that's a bit scary, but that's all I ever use a browser on my phone for. It's to ask a question. You know, we're sitting somewhere and said, who sung this or who did this? You Google it and then click on something and then have to read about it.

Paul (00:41:23) - Well, the AI bit just goes, well, I'll answer that for you. And here's the bit of information you need. So that's that's working really, really well. Um, so it's a little bit like that where I don't necessarily see it as teaching but as cheating. And the final thing I'd say that Jonathan, did, you asked. I've started to try and look at ways I can be a tool rather than a toy for me, and that sounds a bit pithy, but when it first came out, yes, I was asking it to make a cartoon guinea pig riding a quad bike, you know, and and it would give me a lovely image of exactly that, you know, and then go make it splash through a puddle. Okay. And the imagery is fantastic, but I wonder how often I'd actually use that, whereas now I'm using it to return searches and read things out in the car for me and help me write a course. Um, in in Gemini, it's really working.

Jonathan (00:42:16) - That sounds amazing.

Speaker 5 (00:42:18) - Mhm.

Jonathan (00:42:18) - That's right.

Paul (00:42:19) - I don't think it's.

Jonathan (00:42:20) - On the verge of being transformed.

Paul (00:42:23) - Supported. It's a better way of looking at it.

Speaker 5 (00:42:25) - Yeah. Well yeah.

Jonathan (00:42:26) - If you can save me a couple of hours that'd be every week. That'd be really cool.

Paul (00:42:31) - Honestly Jonathan if you as soon as you open up Gemini and I'll happily jump on and sort of do a screenshot, we did a lunch and learn at work, um, week before last, because we had the same thing on. Oh, I don't understand it. I don't like all that. Um, and the analogy I use there is it's a bit like, um, you know, a company accountant. Yeah, they're brilliant at maths, but ultimately use a calculator. They probably could work it all out with a pen and paper. But you know what? A calculator makes sense. And that's what I'm seeing. I will become. It's like it hasn't replaced their skills as an accountant. It just means that they can do things quicker and more accurately.

Speaker 7 (00:43:05) - Yeah.

Jonathan (00:43:07) - Exciting.

Caleb (00:43:09) - I think it's that. That's how I look at it. It's a superpower, you know, it's it's an added a. Um, you know, another layer to your capability. And I, you know, as I keep saying, you know, if you're doing dolls repetitive, um, you know, logical stuff or, you know, sometimes the illogical, then it will it can do that for you and free work for the stuff that you really enjoy doing. Yeah. I think there's so much out there. I mean, it's moving at such a pace as well. Um, what you talk about today will probably change in another month's time and go, oh, there's this new one that's, you know, the the best of those things combined. But yeah, there's so much going on around it.

Paul (00:43:54) - 100%, Caleb. And you know, to that point, the fact that when I said, I'll do this lunch and learn with the team, it was called Bard. And two weeks later, when we actually came to do it, he had become Gemini.

Paul (00:44:06) - And it was like, no, like, what? Is it different? No, no, no, it's all being rebranded. It's all been changed. It's all been it's like whatever. So this stuff is moving silly quick. I mean really, really fast. Um, but you know, it's let's just see, see what uses we can actually do and use it for. I think I've got a question for you. Um, I know don't I'm really putting you on a spot. I was, um, there's a guy called Marshall Sanders, and you may remember him from years ago. Caleb. He he was. I think he still is actually CEO of a company called filtered. I'm talking about I, um, anyway, he's written a book called Time Boxing, which I've been listening to on, um, on audible, and I saw an article on LinkedIn. He was talking about it, and it might be great to get Mark on. He said he'd love to come and talk to us at some point, but the whole idea of it is he he says that people, or he himself is inherently bad at getting stuff done over the years.

Paul (00:45:07) - And he's been through so many different, um, uh, apps for reminders and task management apps and all of the rest of it. And I'm not I'm only halfway through the book, but into a summary. And I'd love to get your take on this. Marc basically uses his calendar as his task manager to, if that makes sense, and the whole sort of and it's called time boxing, but the sort of the sub line to it is the power of doing one thing at a time, he says. We're rubbish at multitasking, which I found really interesting because we all try and do it all the time. So I'd love to know how you. Jonathan, for example, you've been saying how busy you've been with loads of different stuff. How do you compartmentalize all of that stuff? How do you manage your time?

Jonathan (00:45:52) - So, um, one thing I because of the nature of work, I have four email accounts and uh, and four calendars as a result. And uh, and the only way I can manage my time, um, is to timebox.

Jonathan (00:46:06) - I haven't read the book, but I put all my to dos are listed in in 15 minute slots in my diary so that I sit down and I do that. So if I get a task, come through, it immediately gets put on the day in the in the calendar. And if I see something I want.

Paul (00:46:22) - Sorry, how, how how strict are you with yourself to do that at that time?

Jonathan (00:46:27) - I might not always do it at the time that I've put it in. So if I've got like for example, Monday, Mondays between 830 and, and uh, 1:00 are a free slot in my diary. So I have that slot completely free for tasks, if you like. And then Friday is my other kind of sit down and do things. And then Monday afternoon, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I'm generally out with doing my work in, in, in the with with, with clients. So I'm gathering tasks while I'm there. But I don't have the in those windows of time.

Jonathan (00:47:02) - I don't have the the capacity to sit and actually do things. Um, so all of those things are scheduled on Monday or Friday. Um, if I don't get them done, um, then they then move to another, they move to another time slot. Um, and I mark them out if they're I know the ones that are really imperative that have to be done that day. I'm just moving them along. I used to do it when I first when I got my first, um, my, my first, um, trainee manager role back at the time that was in the, uh, that was in the late 1900s, 1997. Um.

Speaker 5 (00:47:38) - I, I then I.

Jonathan (00:47:39) - I used to have a diary and I, I, you kept, you know, those really tiny post-it notes that are about the size of a large postage stamp. Stamp? I used to use those in my diary and move them forward. That's how I would do it.

Speaker 5 (00:47:51) - Wow.

Paul (00:47:52) - So you're a big proponent, then, of this whole time boxing idea? To me, it's like really strange because I use my calendar for one thing and my to do list for somebody else.

Speaker 5 (00:48:02) - I could, I would.

Jonathan (00:48:02) - I got to the point where I couldn't, I couldn't work between the. So the other thing I started doing with reference to that is I've started using recently, I've started using the today inbox on my. On, um, Apple mail on my phone so I can see all of the. So I so I process all of today's mail on the day and I see it there. And I make a habit of making sure that I've read everything that's coming today. And so it's all gone by the end of the day.

Paul (00:48:30) - And when something comes into that, when you say process it, is that already it? Delete it, is it, send it off. And then I guess you then add that to the calendar if you need to deal with it or. Yeah.

Jonathan (00:48:41) - I think it's moved into the diary or, or it's or it's something that was simply there for information. So I decide what type of email is it? Is it an email for information or is it an email for action? If it's an email for information, it's read and I do what's appropriate with the information.

Jonathan (00:48:57) - If it's an email for action, then generally speaking, it gets copied and put in my calendar.

Paul (00:49:02) - And how often do you. Read that email. So is that timebox? I'm not trying to be flippant. I'm really trying to understand it. So do you put in do you have 15 minute sections three times a day to read email, for example?

Jonathan (00:49:17) - I have um. Yes. So I, I read it at the start of the day. Um. But generally speaking, my email management is done at lunchtime because I've waited for things to come in because the inbox is empty at the start of the day. So lunch time, end of the day. Um, and I've also set up on my phone, um, the, the, the daily summaries so you can set a summary in notifications to come on at different times a day. So I get a, I get a summary of kind of what's going on in LinkedIn. It may email in my diary comes in, um, in the morning, in the afternoon and in the, in the evening before I start work.

Jonathan (00:49:57) - So then I don't have to be I don't have to be kind of like scouring through all of the all of the apps and social media to be able to see what's going on. It gives me a summary of that, and that makes means that I'm not constantly worried that I'm missing stuff.

Paul (00:50:12) - What about yourself, Caleb? Because you see, you're nodding along to some of Jonathan's stuff there.

Speaker 5 (00:50:15) - Yeah, I think.

Caleb (00:50:16) - Some of it I mean, the majority of it actually. So I use my calendar as my to do list as well, because I think we've spoken about this before. But then, you know, you've got the right amount of time assigned to that to do else your to do list just grows and grows and grows and you can never find the time for it. So, um, much the same if, you know, if an email comes in, it's either 1 or 3 things isn't it? It's either delay, um, file for information or you need to action it. And if you've got action there, you've got to find time in your diary to do that.

Caleb (00:50:46) - And then means you're focused on doing that task rather than just trying to do it half heartedly. If you're fitting it in around stuff. So yeah, I'm all up for that. I use calendar mainly to organize my life and my tasks and and everything. Really. And are you.

Paul (00:51:03) - Talking in and out of work? Because, Jonathan, you said you have four different calendars. I'm not gonna ask you what they're for, but like.

Speaker 5 (00:51:08) - I.

Caleb (00:51:09) - Mean, I do the same. So, you know, you've got I mean, I haven't got all those email addresses, but you sort of got a work and a and a personal email, but I follow the same process, no doubt.

Paul (00:51:22) - Sorry, Jonathan. Are you working.

Jonathan (00:51:23) - Too? Well, just a notification summary. That's I that's been game changing for me. Just like a kind of what?

Paul (00:51:31) - What is that? What? What does what do you do with that?

Jonathan (00:51:35) - Do you set it up in the notification center and and and you can you can prevent notifications coming in when they arrive.

Jonathan (00:51:44) - So as opposed to them, as opposed to your phone constantly.

Speaker 5 (00:51:48) - Pinging, beeping, pinging at you. Yeah.

Jonathan (00:51:51) - Right. It it summarizes those at a time that you define. So, um, at that point I get a summary that tells me, um, what's happened on LinkedIn, what's happened in the news, um, what's happened? Um, I get a summary of the phone calls that I've missed, and I get a summary of the emails that I've received, and I've changed the way that my phone screen is. So now, instead of having my email app on, um, and going into email. I've got the widgets on one of my on one of my screens so I can flick through. Yeah, I can't find it now. I can flick through, um, today's emails. I can see at a glance the calendar. I can see my day. I can see at a glance. And I can also see I think my photo somewhere is in there. And it gives me the kind of, you know, you get the the on this day kind of.

Paul (00:52:41) - Memories here on this. Yeah yeah.

Jonathan (00:52:42) - Yeah. So I can I can flick through those and I can do that at the start of the day before I've, even before I've even finished my cup of tea.

Paul (00:52:50) - That's interesting because you're almost using that if I'm understanding that. Right. You're almost using that as like a dashboard rather than yeah, I.

Jonathan (00:52:58) - Don't, don't go to lots of apps. It's just the way, the, the way the widgets are. You can it's a larger window and I just flick through the for wow.

Paul (00:53:09) - I'd love to dig into it more and on a on another show. And so we'll see exactly how we do that. Because I think at some point I know we touched on focus modes before, and we don't want this to become some Apple podcast, but.

Speaker 5 (00:53:23) - The.

Paul (00:53:23) - Focus modes have been absolutely game changing for me. I had so many different levels in like in a moment. I'm now in my podcasting focus mode, which means nothing's going to beep. It's all turned off.

Paul (00:53:35) - If you were to look at my watch, it's just got timers on it. Do you know what I mean? It's stuff like that because it's just it changes.

Caleb (00:53:42) - Oh, I think that depends on obviously you can tailor that to however you want it because absolutely the idea of that not having notifications. Personally I don't like because I actually like a lot of stuff going on. But then that's, you know, that's what I enjoy. So, you know, the thought of not checking emails until certain points in a day that wouldn't work for me because I'd be like, I want to come in, I just want to do it. I want to do it now. And, you know, I want to check it. And sometimes. You know you want to respond to it straight away. Sometimes you've got consideration. Um, but I enjoy that, I enjoy that. You know, getting all of that stuff and prioritizing or triaging it. And, you know, if you always find it courteous, if a client sent an email about a query that you say, you know, you respond to them pretty quickly to go, you know, I'm going to get to this in the next couple of days, you know.

Caleb (00:54:47) - Thanks very much and speak to you soon. You know, and most people would go, oh, thanks. You know, I come back to that conversation that you have when it's voice to, you know, face to face, someone wouldn't say something to you and then you just stare at and blankly for, for another couple of hours and go, oh, no, I can't answer yet, but that's how I view it, you know, because I enjoy that. And I get, you know, and it depends what work you're doing as well. You know, if you're if, if you need your attention for, you know, long periods of time and you know, like if you're training and in a facilitation role, then yeah, of course you don't want, you know, um, distractions at all. But if you're at your peak and you can fit that. Uh, listen, I thoroughly enjoy doing that and having a load of sort of plate spinning.

Paul (00:55:36) - So let's imagine you have got some downtime.

Paul (00:55:39) - What are you watching? What are you reading? What are you doing?

Caleb (00:55:42) - I'm going to go first because you already know what my fave is. I'm just, um. So I got in quite late to the game. Slow horses.

Paul (00:55:51) - Oh, come on. Knew it.

Speaker 5 (00:55:52) - Was coming.

Jonathan (00:55:52) - All right.

Paul (00:55:53) - It's just the best, right?

Caleb (00:55:55) - Absolutely. Love it. I thought the first two episodes were a bit of a slow burn and then and and like, I can see.

Paul (00:56:03) - I spilled on the characters for you, Caleb. That's all it's doing. It's just introducing you to each character.

Caleb (00:56:07) - And honestly, we. So Amanda and I, my wife, we must have smashed out three series of it.

Speaker 5 (00:56:15) - In a way. I think there's only.

Paul (00:56:16) - Three, isn't it?

Jonathan (00:56:17) - There are only three.

Caleb (00:56:18) - And and like, we were just like, when's the next one coming? You know, it just we can't wait for it I love it, I'll recommend it to anyone. So the premise behind it is they're all, what am I, MI5 agents that have been chucked out the main agency and go to this, um, go to this other office that they nickname the Slow Horses.

Caleb (00:56:41) - They're all sort of Slough House, the Slough House, degenerates and reprobates, really. But I cannot tell you enough how much Gary Oldman's character makes that show. He's just he is the most obnoxious character that's far in burp, in saying what he wants, in the way he wants, but he absolutely makes a show.

Paul (00:57:03) - As bizarre as it sounds, right? He's he's so good in it that you can almost smell the character. That makes.

Speaker 5 (00:57:12) - Sense.

Speaker 8 (00:57:13) - Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (00:57:14) - You know what I mean? Yes.

Paul (00:57:15) - You think, oh my God, I bet he stinks. Oh, look, wash your hair. Just amazing. Yeah, it's just amazing TV.

Speaker 5 (00:57:23) - Yeah. And I love the fact.

Paul (00:57:25) - That they're all a bit, um, vulnerable. They've all got this. Do you know what I mean?

Caleb (00:57:29) - They're not backstory and issues, and, you know, they're a they're a dysfunctional family. Really? Yes. And it's it's gritty. Right. So, you know, there's no guarantee that if a character's in it in the start of the show, they're going to be there at the end of the show.

Caleb (00:57:45) - So it doesn't pull any punches really. And so I don't actually know how you define it. It's not a dark comedy. It's, you know, it's drama with humor in it. And I don't know the best way to summarize that.

Speaker 5 (00:57:58) - Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Paul (00:57:59) - When I was trying to describe it to you, I was making it sound like some sort of sort of spy thriller thing because people hear MI5 and but it's not like and there are literally there are laugh out loud bits and I, we say that a lot, but there are bits. I'm absolutely just the way. And of course, when we watched it, bear in mind my wife's an H.R. manager. She's gone. He just can't talk to people like that. And I'm like, if she said, how lovely it would be just to be able to just go every now and again. Yeah, but we knew you were going to mess that up, didn't we? Because it's you, you know, it's just like he's just outstanding.

Paul (00:58:34) - Yeah. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Caleb (00:58:36) - The, um, the on the positive. Now apparently they finish filming, um, series four. They've already got sign off for series five and expecting a series six, so it's going to run.

Paul (00:58:49) - Yeah. Don't based on books aren't there? There's quite a few books now actually doing it in the right order. Um, yeah. So I'm avoiding the books because I, I want to watch them when they come out. I want to be surprised to your point. You know, the fact that main characters are, you know, getting hurt and essentially dying and being sacked and God knows what. Yeah. Really, really good. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (00:59:10) - Excellent.

Caleb (00:59:11) - Um, I think Gary Oldman, didn't he win a BAFTA or something for most diverse, um, actor and stuff and. You? Sort of. You do recall the stuff that he's in and then watching this. I mean, I said to Amanda, he absolutely makes his show. I'll bet he adds that just scream, um, be in that character.

Caleb (00:59:30) - Yeah.

Paul (00:59:31) - Yeah. He's excellent. Excellent at it. Brilliant. Love that. Well, thank goodness for that. There's nothing worse than when we were banging on about it and you come back and that's terrible. Didn't get.

Speaker 5 (00:59:39) - It. I don't know why it.

Caleb (00:59:39) - Took me so long to get into that. I just kept seeing the, um, seeing the poster. Ah, on Apple and thinking, not quite sure about that. And then, you know, you have a, you have a bit of a spare where there's nothing else on terrestrial and you watch some me and like we both my wife and I were watching it went, oh my God. Yeah. It's just keep watching it.

Paul (01:00:00) - Well, you've done it in the right way to be honest, because you've done it where you can binge them. Because the last series, because we loved the first two, we did exactly that. And in the last series that came out, it was like, another one's coming Friday. You think, oh, they want to wait till Friday.

Paul (01:00:13) - Yeah. But yeah, exactly. So you almost forced yourself into it. What about yourself, Jonathan?

Jonathan (01:00:19) - Well, I am currently working my way through Masters of the Air on Apple TV+, and that's, um, I'm really, really enjoying. I'm really, really enjoying that. Not least because, um, my dad was really into, um, the, the, the whole, um, US Air Force in, in England, um, during the war because he grew up in and around um, Northamptonshire, where there were a whole bunch of air bases. So that's, that's that's really cool. I'm enjoying that. And I think I'm five five into that, that season of that. And last night my wife and I started to watch Lessons in Chemistry, which again is on Apple TV+, which is a book about, um, Elizabeth Scott, who's a, um, a master's chemist, um, working at a university in the US. And she, um, has a love of food and she starts to, to, to mix a love of chemistry and a love of food and becomes a TV presenter.

Jonathan (01:01:17) - And it's the it's the story of how that how that happens. But in addition to that, normally I'm quite quiet at this point. I don't know whether it's the fact that I have that I've, I've recently got my, uh, my turntable working and the music is flowing in our house, but I've also, um, listening to all listening to my, all of our old, uh, all of our old LPs. Um. But I've discovered a gentleman called, um, Trevor Horn and, uh, and his.

Paul (01:01:46) - Horn, as in the ZT. The producer, Trevor Horn.

Jonathan (01:01:49) - Yes. The producer, Trevor Horn, has been creating some new records, um, where he has, um, he's taken 80 artists and they're doing covers of other 80s artists. Um, in a in a really compelling way. It's a style I've not heard before, and I feel like I've discovered this little kind of stream of music, and it's like I feel about 18. I feel like I'm rediscovering, you know, when you're a teenager and you listen to music and it brings you alive, and it's kind of exciting when you've followed down the rabbit Warren and find another one.

Jonathan (01:02:22) - Well, that's what's happening to me at the moment. My love of music has been, uh, has been reinvigorated.

Paul (01:02:28) - He's a bit of a genius. Trevor Horn, and he he's produced so many people. When you actually look at his sort of back catalogue, obviously all the ABCs work with Pet Shop Boys. He's done loads of that stuff. And then as a complete curveball, he's like, oh, by the way, here's the art of noise and all. It just he's an absolute genius. Just keeps reinventing himself.

Jonathan (01:02:48) - Well, all of that kind of crossover of style of styles is in this particular album, which I can't remember the title of.

Paul (01:02:55) - Oh, send me a link, Jonathan. I'd love to have a listen.

Jonathan (01:02:57) - I'll send you a completely amazing. It's fantastic. And you?

Paul (01:03:02) - Well, for me, God, it seems like we should be sponsored by Apple TV+. Criminal record on Apple TV+ is really good. Um, we've just finished that. And, uh, yeah.

Paul (01:03:14) - Not maybe not quite, um, slow horses level, but, um, with Gary Oldman in it, but you've got to say Peter Capaldi, and that is also excellent. So just finish that. Um, and yesterday I finished, uh, Griselda on Netflix, which is, um, she's basically a true story of the female drug person, uh, drug baron, whatever you want to call it. Um, I think Escobar said the only man he's ever been scared of was a woman. There you go. And it was Griselda. Um, so it's only. I think it's only five episodes, but really not. And again, what I really like about it, it's another thing that's in sort of multiple languages. I mean, she's Colombian, so obviously a lot of it's in Spanish, but it's also subtitles. A lot of it's then in English. I think we're seeing more and more of that because obviously it opens up the audience. So I quite like that. So Griselda is worth a look.

Paul (01:04:08) - And finally, finally, um, you was you were talking about finding old music again. Um, I've got into, uh, I've just updated some, some speakers and they've got the spatial audio thing, which I thought I saw a fad. What's that all about? But stuff that's been rerecorded for spatial audio on the. I'm listening to it on Sonos 300, and I'm looking for things specifically that have got spatial audio rerecording. It's just I don't know how to describe it. It's bizarre, you know? You know, I can only imagine when you went from mono to stereo and it's like, oh my God, it's over. It's over there. But then with spatial, it's like, okay, so the singer's here, I can hear the drums there. This is something's behind me now and something's over the top of my head. It's just like, wow, it's the most peculiar thing. And even better if you got if you if you listen to something in this recording spatial and you've got your headphones on.

Paul (01:05:06) - I was walking there. I was on my way home from this train station, had me about AirPods in which is spatial, and I turned to look and the voice that was in front of me then came into the left ear. And then when I straightened up again, it came round to the front again. It's really peculiar. And then just just nuts. So you walk across the kitchen and of course, someone who was singing to your face is now singing behind you because it knows where you are now. It's like it's the honestly, whatever you're thinking, it's really, really bizarre. So if you've got you've got AirPods, right? If you've got anything that supports spatial, go on to Apple Music, say this, this stuff on there specifically for spatial and I'll, I'll send you a couple of tracks. It will blow your mind. It's just stereo is gone. It's like, yeah, that was a bit last year. Um, it's really peculiar.

Caleb (01:05:56) - So I don't own a single piece of vinyl.

Caleb (01:05:59) - Why would I in vinyl when you get all those new.

Speaker 5 (01:06:03) - Well.

Paul (01:06:04) - That's a bit open. A can of worms. Now, it's not very tactile. Scrolling through an app and finding something to listen to. I like picking up a record and putting it on. And the other thing I find with it, Jonathan, feel free to jump in. The other thing I find it if I put on a record, I've chosen to sit down and listen to this for 45 minutes.

Jonathan (01:06:24) - Yeah, that's the that's the thing. It's the it's the it's the event. It's the sitting in the sitting in the front room. My phone's off because I don't need it to be on. I'm just there and on my my attention is completely on the music.

Speaker 5 (01:06:39) - Yeah, yeah.

Paul (01:06:40) - A great seriously have a look at this spatial stuff. It's. I thought it was all a bit. Yeah. Who cares? But honestly, um, bizarrely, some of the Ed Sheeran albums were some of the first. Um, and Shape of You in spatial is bizarre, but I've also redone a lot of Beatles albums and they just sound so different.

Paul (01:06:58) - You hear instruments that you haven't heard. It's really strange. You think, what's that? Where's that bell come from? And I think it's probably always been there, but you couldn't hear it because I've been remixed now. Honestly, it's crazy.

Jonathan (01:07:09) - Meanwhile, back in 1978, I went to, um, no, this is only last week. I went to a, I went to a vinyl night at a at a local community pub. So there's a group of guys of a similar generation to myself, sat around, uh, sat around a record player and speakers all brought along 2 or 3 albums talking about why they'd chosen this one to, to, to bring along based on the theme. That was, uh, the thing that was promoted a couple of weeks before. That's cool. Just gently supping real ale. It was.

Speaker 5 (01:07:39) - Fantastic.

Paul (01:07:42) - Fantastic. Well, if anyone has made it this far, we've just lost them.

Speaker 5 (01:07:49) - Oh, go on then, bring us home.

Paul (01:07:50) - Jonathan.

Jonathan (01:07:51) - We've been all over the place today.

Jonathan (01:07:54) - But but I think the, uh, the, the, the essence of what we've been talking about is connection and conversation and being real with one another, um, and allowing space in our lives to, uh, to, to really experience the connection that we have with other people. Um, and that's what I'm going to leave it. I'm going to encourage everyone to go away from listening to us today, go and talk to somebody, find out something new about them, and, uh, and enjoy your time until we hear from you again.