Narrator (00:00:00) - Welcome to I love it Here, a place where we discuss and share our thoughts on various topics, all focused on making life and work a better experience for everyone.

Caleb (00:00:27) - This is my bit in it. It is. Go. It feels so smooth. So smooth. Hello and welcome to another episode of I Love It here, as always, your host today and myself, Caleb Foster, Paul Westlake and Jonathan Cooper. So without further ado, let's get into this month's conversation. How are you both? All good, thank you. This feels extraordinarily old school to me in a good way. And as much as I love, I do love having our guests on. This is like. This is like back in the day, isn't it? Yeah.

Paul (00:01:00) - Like when it started.

Caleb (00:01:03) - Yeah. It's just us rambling. No, we had. We've had some lovely guests. We really haven't. Especially last month. I thought Sophie was really good value. And unfortunately, Jonathan, you had a bit of a nightmare in dropping out, but I'm sure you've listened back to it since, but I expect you were out on your bike.

Caleb (00:01:22) - But yeah, Sophie was really good value. As most of the guests we've got, all of the guests we've had on have been. So having said that, it's nice to get back to being us and having a bit of a chat. So what you've been up to?

Paul (00:01:34) - Jonathan We've been up to I've been away for two weeks, which is why I was not around for the last, the last recording. So when we recorded last, I was down on the south coast of England and enjoying a holiday in Lymington. I spent a week in Tenby and I saw I've had a couple of weeks out and it's been absolutely brilliant. I don't remember the last time I had two weeks off in August and just got to spend some time chilling. So yeah, I've.

Caleb (00:02:03) - Been disrupted by the weather or not particularly. Haven't been great.

Paul (00:02:06) - It was incredibly hot in Tenby, so there were four days where it was like it was like plus 25 degrees and on the beach and ice creams and all that shenanigans. Yeah, it was.

Caleb (00:02:17) - It was great in Hull.

Paul (00:02:19) - Indeed. Indeed.

Caleb (00:02:22) - Yeah. I thought of you the other week, you know, because I saw a post from Brompton and they were partnering with Bear Grylls, I think.

Paul (00:02:30) - Oh gosh, they're going to do a black and orange version. Are they? I don't know. Compass in the compass in it somewhere in a knife slashed, stashed in the in the tube.

Caleb (00:02:39) - I think I've thrown off a Bear Grylls Are they. I think it's a partnership is more about Bear Grylls doing some some locations and like trails as well but I'm sure it's going to be branded Bear Grylls.

Paul (00:02:54) - Yeah well I suppose bear on a Brompton, you've got kind of, you've got a bit of alliteration there. Yeah, that's going to go away on social media.

Caleb (00:03:03) - Well you mean they start with the advert and work backwards? Is that what you're suggesting? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Someone brought a cuddly bear to the Brompton office and thought as an opportunity, you know? Well, maybe. Maybe they are doing.

Caleb (00:03:14) - Maybe they are extending and going a bit more rugged off. Roady I don't know. Perhaps that's where they're going.

Paul (00:03:21) - Well, because I've got really sad and I follow a lot of Facebook groups. There are people who put off road tyres on their Brompton and go off road. I haven't seen any downhill, but they do. People do a lot of trails and kind of get and use them as a, as a, as a as a mode of transport that you can go anywhere on.

Caleb (00:03:41) - And I suppose with, with the battery and stuff, that actually makes a lot of sense. Right.

Paul (00:03:44) - Yeah. I haven't I suppose I haven't tried it off road. I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to try it for kind of like instead of a mountain bike unless I'd seen somebody else doing it and proving it because it could get rather expensive with some, some wheels to be trued and all of that kind of stuff. But it's a bit.

Caleb (00:04:04) - Like using your MacBook as a Frisbee.

Paul (00:04:06) - I think that's exactly what it's like.

Paul (00:04:09) - That's a great analogy.

Caleb (00:04:13) - Yeah, don't do it. I cringes every time I see on YouTube and I'm watching something intellectual. All of a sudden an advert will come up and you just see someone putting a MacBook into a bag on a high building. And I'm thinking, I know where this is going. Yeah, I don't need to watch this. I don't want to. I don't need to know how good your case is. I really chuck mine off the top of skyscrapers, so I think I'll be okay thinking Jonathan off road is like, Yeah, you try it first. Yeah, absolutely. So we've got a nice little thing to chat about, haven't we? So we're almost going back to our I love it here and what do we love here? But before we get into that, do you want to should we start with Gratitudes? Do you want want to finish? We traditionally finish on on TVs, which I by the way, I've got some crackers that I've been watching, so we'll save those two till the end as well.

Caleb (00:05:03) - So. So why don't we start with gratitude and I'm going to change it up for a while because you always ask first Caleb, so I'm going to come to you first. So what are you grateful for this month? Well, do you know what I'm I'm grateful for bowls, and I haven't reached that age in my life. Oh, love it.

Paul (00:05:25) - I kind the bowls.

Caleb (00:05:26) - Yes, bowls on the green.

Caleb (00:05:29) - Not bowling, but bowls.

Caleb (00:05:31) - Wow. So the local garage every year organises like a charity bowls event with the local bowling club. And every every night we walk past a bowling club when we walk in. Woody. And this is going to sound awful, but they're all of a certain age, right?

Caleb (00:05:53) - I was going to say, if you join, you'd half the average age, right? Well.

Caleb (00:05:57) - There were some some people younger than me. They were members of the bowling club. But. So. So be it. Right? We so got into this. There was like a group of ten of us, some of them, some of us we'd never met in our group.

Caleb (00:06:13) - So it was friends of friends that were sort of sponsoring some stuff, but we just thoroughly had a gig, all right. And just like knocking down the preconceived boundaries of age differences and just having a gig or everyone's in it, you know, young and older generations. And it was almost like crazy bowls, really. They'd set this up. So, you know, you had to get the bowls through these through these arches and get, you know, like.

Caleb (00:06:48) - Was there a windmill?

Caleb (00:06:49) - Yeah. And it was like so they'd use the whole of the grain. It was just like we were dreading it.

Caleb (00:06:55) - We were going to think, Oh my.

Caleb (00:06:56) - God, we're going to be rubbish at this. And then when we got in there, it was just it was such fun actually. And I think my appreciation of how technically challenging it is, you know, as an outside observer, you just think, Oh, they're just rolling balls down there.

Caleb (00:07:13) - But what.

Caleb (00:07:15) - Would wow. Okay. So I didn't.

Caleb (00:07:19) - Really want to know what you do on one side. Is that right?

Caleb (00:07:21) - Then you end up in bowls. That is unreal, right? So my partner was the wife of my son's work colleague, and we were just having a bit of a giggle. And the other couple, so she'd done, she'd bowled and smacked one of the other woods and the guy turned round to me and said, Oh, she's just knocked, knock me up. I went back up and I said, Did you just stay away? And then she said, We'll have none of that today. Thank you. One's quite enough today. And it just went on and on. And my son, of course, he's just latching on to the fact that these balls are called woods. Yeah. And then Amanda's like it rained a little bit, so Amanda said to the old bloke, Can I. Can I just wipe my balls, please? She went, Ello, No. What's going on there.

Caleb (00:08:15) - Longer went on.

Caleb (00:08:17) - Complete giggle, honestly.

Caleb (00:08:19) - And you know something that if someone said to me I do you fancy playing bowls this weekend? I'd probably gone. Do you know what I might give that a bit of a swerve. But I thoroughly enjoyed it just because it was quite a social event. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, the as I say, the age groups were just mix in and we're all having fun and it was just not taken too seriously. Really?

Caleb (00:08:43) - Oh, that sounds great. When I sort of when I said, did you halve the average age? I was being a bit flippant there because we had the one of the festivals in Bedford. This was probably a good two, two, three years ago now. And there's a there's a bowling Green there in one of the parks. And it was basically an open event as in Come and have a go. And I was like, You're saying, Oh no, it's not really for us and it's not coming off Absolutely loved it. Really enjoyed it. Thought it was quite technical, really got into it and and you get chatting to the old guys there or the ladies there and they were saying it's such a shame because people have got this perception of it, but it's actually a really good game and it's quite a tactical game and it's, you know, and anyone can do it, which is the other thing that was quite nice and a skill for some of these people.

Caleb (00:09:29) - I mean, they're literally stopping this thing and like turning a mean and all the rest of it. Yeah. And then so I said to Claire actually, ironically said, I'd love to join that. And she thought exactly what you did, go look really, you know. And I said, it's such a shame because it is. But then when we went to find out about it, I said, Oh, yeah, we have an open events all the time. And I said, Oh, when are they? Oh, every Thursday between 11 and 1230. It's like, What? During the day? Can we come in the evening? Oh no, no, no. No events. Only an evening. Do you think so? So it's open to everyone. Assuming you don't have a job, you know.

Caleb (00:10:03) - And you know, I didn't realise that there was a league structure behind all of this. Oh, sure. I mean, the guy the guy was super helpful. That was sort of the the other partners.

Caleb (00:10:18) - And so and of course he made it known that he was a club captain because and so on. The first one, I literally just chuck this ball and out for the best. And it did all right actually. And then the club captain, unbeknown to me at the time, he chucked it and and he sort of did a little bit better. And I went, oh, you're not bad, are you? And no, no, I'm not bad for the club, captain. Thank you. I went, Oh right. Okay. Love that then. And then he said, Yeah, we're not doing bad as a club. We're actually in the Premiership league. And I went, What? You've got a league structure and you're in the Premiership league and yeah, course I.

Caleb (00:10:57) - Still turned up for a bit of fun. Yeah.

Caleb (00:10:58) - That would not offend anyone. And then and then when you. Started mixing. The other thing that made it quite eye opening for me as well was that, you know, you've got all the surrounding villages with their different clubs and they were going, Oh yeah, I much prefer it at this village because they're a bit more fun and playful.

Caleb (00:11:19) - This one takes it really serious and you know, you go, All right, okay. So I was trying to gauge, well, what's in it for people, you know, is it And it's no different from work either. Is it you either go to a place or go, we're we're playing to win and we're super competitive or you just go there and go, I want to have a bit of fun. You know, this is what my values are.

Paul (00:11:41) - That's really interesting.

Caleb (00:11:42) - What? Sorry. Jonathan Watts. So were you were you was yours in North Ferriby? Was it that sort of level or is it sort of hull or how big how big is are you the sort of the locations?

Caleb (00:11:54) - Well they so the village are mean is barrow and then there's a village down the road called Yorkshire and another one down the road called Barnet Bay. But the whole the whole league is sort of North Lincolnshire and I suppose which is a big old part, you know, a county. Anyway, I suspect it goes even broader than that.

Caleb (00:12:15) - Cool. Sorry. Jonathan in Shropshire.

Paul (00:12:16) - Oh no. So when I was, when I was when we were recording last time next to the car park where I was sat, there was a bowling green and I was I and after I after we'd finished recording, I needed to nip and use the public toilet. So I want to pass. The wind was absolutely howling. It was really cold. But these people on the bowling green, they were dressed. I'd never seen so much white winter gear. They kept. They kept the uniform complete like top to toe in white. So these were people in white puffer jackets and white bobble hats and white gloves. They were taking it like.

Caleb (00:12:51) - Yeah, proper.

Paul (00:12:52) - Seriously wanted to be outside and play. It was really and I made the observation I'm never going to get an opportunity to share that. And you've given me an opportunity to shout about that. I was like wandering around. I did not see that up.

Caleb (00:13:05) - See.

Paul (00:13:06) - There's winter. It's like, anyway, yeah, So it is.

Caleb (00:13:10) - It is funny though, how like you don't think about it too much, but how bowls is actually woven into the fabric of British culture.

Jonathan (00:13:22) - Boy.

Caleb (00:13:24) - It's just everywhere, isn't it? And you don't like there's a bowling green almost everywhere. And there is this sort of community of people that go out bowling religiously. And unless you're sort of privy to that community, you just. How many times have you walked past the Bowling Green and just go to Bowling Green or he's not even said that you just accept it for being there?

Caleb (00:13:51) - Yeah, it's all done it. And it also reminds me very much of how marketing can either sell something or not. So if you think when you say Crown Green Bowls. So I think if you were to don't do it now, if you were to Google it, I bet you that is his name. Dave Bryant. You remember the guy used to be a guy with a pipe and and he literally used to be on all the time on, I tell you, like with this pipe.

Caleb (00:14:14) - And I remember Mike, this shows how long ago this was. I remember my dad saying to, you know, he's not actually got anything. No, he's not allowed to smoke that while he's playing. So he'd literally have this pipe. It's obviously back in the day he would have done. But if you look at it now and then you you look at I don't know, curling is a good example. It's basically bowls on ice. Right? I mean, I know I'm very much but a similar sort of concept. But look, because they've got like, you know, maybe it's because we were okay at it or, you know, what's the name conflict with the Scottish group They've really, really well at it And anyway all of a sudden it became a cool thing to watch. It was an Olympic game that we were kind of okay at, but I bet you I don't even know if Crown Green Bowls is an Olympic sport. I don't know why it wouldn't be, but I don't know if it is or not.

Caleb (00:14:57) - I don't know. Well, I'm glad with you know, we ought to wrap this episode of Crown Green Bowls. Okay.

Caleb (00:15:05) - So we're 15 minutes in. Yeah. I'm not saying we're niche before, but we are a Crown Green bowling podcast. Yeah, I doubt it.

Caleb (00:15:18) - Yeah.

Paul (00:15:19) - Our first day out as a team, we should go out and go and find a place to play.

Caleb (00:15:24) - That would be.

Paul (00:15:25) - Recorded live from some clubhouse somewhere.

Caleb (00:15:28) - Yeah. I'll have to get my whites ready.

Caleb (00:15:30) - Listen, if anyone, if anyone from the business community is listening, it is inclusive, though. That's a good thing. It's not a contact sport. Sorry.

Caleb (00:15:39) - I know. That's very much so. Oh, hello. Is that someone talking to you? Background.

Caleb (00:15:43) - Alexa's even getting involved now.

Caleb (00:15:46) - Now you've said it again about yourself, Jonathan. Whilst Caleb is having a conversation with his digital assistant, what's your gratitude?

Paul (00:15:53) - So many things. I'm grateful for holidays. I'm grateful for the allotment because I've been out there.

Paul (00:15:59) - But I'm this this time I'm most grateful for YouTube. So I've been having a bit of bother with my two stroke engines, it has to be said. So if we thought bubble balls would need, we got niche again. I've been having a bit of bother with my two stroke engines and the hedge cutters. The hedge cutters that I bought second hand. I couldn't get to run. And I've spent a bit of time recently trying to get them to go. So on Saturday I got them going, but they, they wouldn't stay running. They so I spent probably an hour on YouTube trying to find out how to tune this thing up. And I found a video and I've learned how to tune a carburetor and I've had to excitement. I've had to go out and buy a new tool in order to be able to do it. And so I can use the tune using the tuning screws. But yeah, I'm grateful for YouTube because I found out what I need to do to make this hedge trimmer work.

Caleb (00:16:53) - There is a connection there though, isn't there, in work is that, you know, there's a reluctance sometimes from large organisations just to allow social learning happen like videos internally because and the message I often get is how do we how do we manage the content to know it's real, it's the right message.

Caleb (00:17:19) - And it's missing the point, though. You know what? They're watching it anyway.

Caleb (00:17:24) - It really is as well, because I think that comes down to what, you know, what are you aspiring to be famous for and to be known for? Actually, if you're, you know, if you want to an agile and responsive team, then why wouldn't they share information? So if you think, actually I'm going to control everything that they post, you're just going to send that underground and they're all going to start telling each other how to do stuff anyway.

Paul (00:17:53) - Yeah, I couldn't quite get my head around how excited I was about having an hour to just read about carburettors back in the know because like back in the day I would.

Caleb (00:18:04) - Have.

Caleb (00:18:04) - Understand how excited I am.

Paul (00:18:07) - Well, back in the day it would have been it would have been a car and I got really excited about tuning the car engine. And I haven't done that for decades. And so to suddenly be like looking again at these little drawings with with with an explanation of how it works and trying. To fathom how to use that information to make it make it better. Solving a problem. I just find it incredibly rewarding for just for just just for it. Just because it was rewarding. Yeah.

Caleb (00:18:36) - It's a gratification. You get.

Paul (00:18:38) - That.

Caleb (00:18:38) - Out of yourself.

Paul (00:18:39) - Yeah, it was great. What about who you see altogether now?

Caleb (00:18:44) - Right. Well, I had possibly the two, potentially the two most stressful. And the good news is probably the two best results I could have thought of in the last two weeks. So there's lots of twos in that sense. Let me explain what that means. So firstly, it was A-level results day for my eldest daughter, so she had a couple of conditional offers.

Caleb (00:19:14) - And this, this is where and kind of please feel free because I know you and I have had this conversation many times when you say I don't actually watch the news anymore because it just it's just all doom and gloom. So feel free to wade in. But two days before her A-level results, every news agency and all everything she's saying online was all about, well, you know, the results are not going to be anywhere near they were. And we need to downgrade all this to pre-COVID levels and the number. And of course, she's just in an absolute state. We talk about what you can control and what you can't. She has no control over this. She did the exams months ago, but all she's looking at is what am I going to do? And there's quite a bit of it's a bit sad, actually. The thing that when I sat down and chatted to her about it, the thing she was most worried about was that some people knew the university she'd been offered and it would be embarrassing and she didn't know how she'd face them if she didn't get that result.

Caleb (00:20:08) - It's like, Well, what are you talking about? You've been offered two great universities to go through. You're going to one of them. One of them would be the creme de la creme. And yes, that'd be great. Why is any of this embarrassing? Anyway? So we'll I'm sure there's something we can we can pick apart in there. And then we had this whole thing with the exams and the results and the, you know, this is what's going to happen allegedly to do mongering. And she got an email 8:00 that morning. So she goes on to the website and of course, the ucAs website. It's just where you meant to go for your results. So she goes on to there and there's a note on there from 8:00 going, Yeah, there was also beer from 8:00. And she said like, Yeah, I know. And you know, it reminded me of front of all the tickets, you know, what are you doing. Refresh, refresh, refresh. I'll keep refreshing it.

Caleb (00:20:55) - That was it not working. Is he is he is the Wi-Fi working? I'm like, Yeah. There's hundreds of thousands of people on this same website. Trust me, it'll be on some. Yeah, but I need to know now. Oh, it's not going away. It's going to work. And I kept refreshing it. Refreshing it. She gets an email. She gets an email from ucAs. While she's refreshing, it's the results still haven't come up. And this email says, many congratulations, blah, blah blah blah, blah. You've been accepted in your first choice university. You have a place at Emmanuel College, Cambridge, right? I mean, we are over them. Absolutely. Oh, my life. That's fantastic. And I know obviously Claire, my wife and we all going, oh, we're so proud of fantastic, you know? And she went and I said, You don't seem too happy. And she said, Yeah, I know, but what if the email is wrong? And I said, Why would the email be wrong? And she said, Well, I sent one out a few weeks back saying that, and basically they made a mistake.

Caleb (00:21:51) - There was some admin thing and they'd made a mistake. She said, Yeah, I'm not going to believe it until I say to ucAs, I said, You've got the results are there, you know, And it's just such a shame because anyway, then the whole ucAs thing came up, results are there. She then went to sixth form to pick up the, you know, the bit of paper, if you like. They're filming her, you know, like one of those things where it's like, Can we interview you and all the rest of it? Anyway, she said, Oh, they wanted to chat to me about this. We don't. Many people from the sixth form going to Cambridge. And I said, I suppose rightly so. So we're really, really chuffed for her. Anyway, that afternoon people are posting on we. I don't see that as my place to post anything like that on on social. It's up to her who she wants to share that with friends and family and all the rest of it, you know, and not only that, you know, I think a lot of people can learn from that in that there will be people who didn't get what they wanted and everyone going, Oh, look how well I've done.

Caleb (00:22:43) - That's just not the right thing to do. So anyway, so we left all that and then my my dad sent me a thing saying, Oh, have you seen this newspaper article? It's all Bedfordshire online and it's all pictures of her there. All the pictures that she took, she become like this poster girl for Bedford A-level results. So that was that one. So very, very happy with that. And then last week was GCSE results. And of course, my younger daughter is always in the shadow of her older sister and she's like, Well, that's right. Firstly, I won't do anything as well as that and all the rest of it. And I said, No, you don't know that. And they're very different. And we got her. Then what happened in the news? Yeah, well. The grades have all been downgraded. People aren't going to get what they want. All of us. No, she got exactly she beat or bettered all of her teacher predicted grades. She got exactly what she needed.

Caleb (00:23:33) - And she's in a lovely group of five girls. Really good friends, have been friends for a number of years now, and all five of them got into the sixth form that they wanted to get to, which was lovely. So she's over the moon. It's just a nice weekend, you know. You think what I'm grateful for is that they can actually just be themselves now. They don't have to worry about that. They don't have to worry. They can just do what they want to do. And I thought, you know what I was most grateful for? We said, Oh, should we go out? We took them out for individual sort of we had some sort of dinners and stuff to celebrate with them. And I said, What you want to do this weekend? And they said, Sorry, dad bit we want to go out for dinner on our own if it's okay if the two of us go. Because I thought I said, Yeah, because I'm going to bury anyway. But it was really nice.

Caleb (00:24:16) - It was nice that they wanted to celebrate together. So anyway, what I'm grateful for is them working. Blimey. 40 Okay. What I'm grateful for is them working their absolute backsides off, but also getting what they deserve for the work they've done.

Caleb (00:24:34) - Well, I think that ought to be commended as well, because I think there's an awful lot of pressure on young people and they're to achieve a certain stage. Absolutely. And for that to come off and for them to sort of see that reward, you know, ought to be commended. I mean, I have a view on the education system that I really don't agree that everything should be based on your performance in a number of exams. But then I'm you know, I just I can't see that change in for a long time, really. But that's really my view on it. But it's amazing for them and that, you know, and they've and again, you can see them growing up and them going actually can we go and celebrate, you know.

Caleb (00:25:22) - That's the thing. Yeah. It's interesting you say that because if you think we've I think we we've all been through the world of work and and I know, Jonathan, you set up a business like pretty much at a time of Covid, which I'm sure will come to come back to you in a minute. But my eldest daughter, the first exams she's ever had to do were A-levels because GCSEs, they didn't do them and they were teacher assessed and she did very well in them. So you can think, okay, well I'm sure this is going to go somewhere because she was very much, you know, put on a pedestal by a lot of teachers. And they assessed her and she got really good grades and then she had to back that up. The pressure on her is to then back that up in A-levels where she's got to prove that it wasn't just a fluke. Then we've got my younger daughter, who I would argue is probably had it even tougher because not only did she miss a whole year, 18 months because of Covid, but but once but they haven't been adjusted at all.

Caleb (00:26:17) - They weren't teacher assessed at all. It was like we still do in the same grades. It's like, well, okay, well, I've had to cram this in, you know, we've got our maths tutor, everything because we had to get to do that. Now if she had been teacher assessed, ironically, she'd have done worse than she'd actually done because her teacher said, Here's your predicted grades, which is what she would have got. And in four of her subjects she's beaten those. So it's and I guess that depends on what your motivations are. She's a sort of person, quite stubborn, if it's fair to say, but she's the sort of person where if they say, Yeah, we think you're going to get a seven inch, I'll get an eight then, because that's the way she is. Whereas other people saw the teacher assessed thing as, Oh, so I will only need a six anyway, that's fine. And in fact one of hers and I'm sure when, when I was at school we didn't, we didn't have this, but I was just given a grade.

Caleb (00:27:05) - It was like, you're an A or a B, that's what you are. But now you can you actually get the grade as in the score as well. So one of hers came back as she was one mark away from the grade above and they've gone back to and she said, oh I it was a subject she's particularly good at and she's gone back and said to the school and school said, Yeah, we've already seen that. We've requested the paper. We're going to ask it to be remarked because they think, not because it makes by the way, it makes not the slightest bit of difference for her getting into the sixth form she wanted to get into. But for her she said, yeah, but I really worked hard. I think I really did well on that one. I'd like to get that. I thought that was quite nice. She's sort of not just sitting back and go, Well, I've got everything I need, but it's like, No, but I want to, you know, prove it even more if you like.

Caleb (00:27:48) - I'd love to play devil's advocate on on the the system. We probably haven't got enough time on our podcast to discuss the whole process. But like based on the grade that she thought she wanted and she was perhaps downgraded initially as she got any any less knowledge, any different knowledge.

Caleb (00:28:12) - No, no, no, no, no. And that's what.

Caleb (00:28:16) - This grading system is just it's just arbitrary sometimes. And then and the other thing I think of is in industry. So in work, do you ever recruit based on the grade performance that people get in school or, you know, in sixth form? Like, I can't ever think when I've spoken to someone, I interviewed someone for a role and asked them, Well, what grades did you get in school? Because it's just about the, the, you know, the behaviours and the passion and everything else that goes with it.

Caleb (00:28:56) - There's a base level though, right? So you're right. But as long as you've got a fair understanding of English and maths, that's what most people would say was pretty much the base level.

Caleb (00:29:05) - You're absolutely right. I don't even think they're asking anymore how many I I'm never going to say it to her.

Caleb (00:29:11) - But it's it's that excluding people though that. Yeah probably I'm just thinking you know if you've got.

Caleb (00:29:17) - If people if.

Caleb (00:29:17) - English isn't the first language. Yeah. You know stuff like that how were you ever going to. But you've got strengths in other areas. That's my I mean again it's one element of that. And I think because I've never been particularly good at English. Ish, ironically, that I you know, I lean into other people that are really good at that to create amazing e-learning. But my strength lies in, you know, visual and and helping clients along. But I don't know, that's my thought on the whole sort of education bit. And Jonathan's looking like.

Paul (00:29:54) - Well, I guess, I guess it depends. I guess it depends what we consider the purpose of education to be. And if the purpose of education is to give us some common ground so that we can all have a conversation and discover where we want to spend our time going forward and what we might be interested in, Then it has.

Paul (00:30:11) - It has. It has. That has some value. I guess discovering who particularly gifted it has some value.

Caleb (00:30:22) - So I think some of that drives the wrong behaviors. You know what? How? Because I always remember just that scenario you've just said about picking up my or going to sixth form college with my son. And all I ever remember was this girl walking out of walking out of the school with a beam in, you know, grin on her face going, She'd got, you know, RR star, whatever it might have been back then. And in that moment I thought. I'm really pleased for you. Can you, you know, can you talk to people? Can you create you know, can you think dynamically, can you adapt really quickly? Because if you can't, then maybe that's going to be a challenge for you in in work. And actually but if she's perhaps stepping into a sales role where it is quite Oh yeah, I've got to get these and I'm, you know measured on success and failure, then maybe she'll excel at that.

Caleb (00:31:21) - But a hundred hundred percent of people coming out of school that have been geared up to that way of thinking are not going to step into sales, are they?

Caleb (00:31:31) - And so it's interesting you say that because you know what I'd love I'd love to. And we don't have the figures on this stuff, but I'd love to know how many people actually ever got the job they thought they were going to get when they were at school either. And and that's let's be honest, that's for a number of reasons in our industry. Much of that is because the work I'm doing now literally didn't exist when I was at school. I was never going to say, Well, what are you going to do? Oh, I'll do, you know, I don't know, animation and video editing and I'll do e-learning. We were talking about, you know, because there was like one PC in the corner that had a green screen. There was no way that you were going to do animations and do your own video work. Of course you weren't.

Caleb (00:32:12) - That was let me be ridiculous. But now I could do that on my phone. So I don't think it changes that much. So if you ask my daughters what jobs and my dad had, my dad came around weekend before last and obviously celebrating with them with with Aston anyway for A-levels and saying, so what is it you want to go on and do? And she said, I have no idea. And you think, No, of course you don't. And he thought, Oh, well, why are you picking those subjects? And I'm saying, Dad, it doesn't work that way. She's picking subjects because she's interested in those subjects. But to your point, Caleb, when it comes to the world of work, it will be. Yeah, I've got a degree. Not. Oh, yes, but what was it in? You know, I don't even think that conversation even comes up, does it?

Caleb (00:32:51) - But this steps nicely into what I wanted to talk about, about personal purpose, actually.

Caleb (00:32:57) - And so how on earth can a young person go? This is what I want to do in the world of work and and a specific role. And wouldn't it be amazing if someone turned around? So you get a lecturer. What you know tend to happen is a conversation is what do you want to do then with your life? You know, what do you want to, you know, even younger, What do you want to do when you grow up? Wouldn't it be amazing if someone turned around and said, I've got no idea, but what I'm going to be able to do is adapt to anything that the world is thrown at me and I'm going to thrive in that environment because I've got the ability to talk to people and work things out really quickly. And and if some young mind said that to you, now you go, oh bloody yeah we got a lot one now but punchy.

Caleb (00:33:43) - Right, Well let's get into that. So you said something over about personal personal statements, personal purpose I guess we would call it.

Caleb (00:33:58) - And it's fair to say this has come up on a few of the conversations, certainly a conversation where with George, I think it may have come up in the conversation we have with Sophie as well. It's quite common that the whole Simon Sinek, Simon Sinek, we're going to have to agree how we're going to say that anyway, so him the the start with Y book which is all around. I think he emphasizes the importance to me of communicating the purpose of why we do something rather than what it is we do. And I think in a nutshell, that's pretty much what that is. That fair to say? That's what we're thinking with a personal purpose statement. Why do we do what we do? Or are you thinking it's something different?

Caleb (00:34:39) - Yeah. Well, I think, first of all, the initial thought is as a business owner or in the world of work, what is that organization's purpose? And therefore, Simon Sinek talks an awful lot about initially was talking about what's the business's purpose? And a lot of organizations are now purpose driven.

Caleb (00:35:01) - They've got a vision of how they want to influence the world and they're, you know, the moonshot to try and do that. What got me thinking more is from a personal point of view, not just a business, because, you know, from the world of business like Mind Boot, we'd say we're trying to help organizations create the world's best workplace. And that's our that's our, you know, Northstar That's our purpose. And then what goes along with that is how we do that and what we do to enable that. And that's our sort of mission, I guess. But I was listening to Dan Carter's new book last month, They Are Winning, and Dan talked an awful lot about your purpose, personal purpose. So forget the world of work. What's your purpose? Purpose. And, you know, I found it really challenging to think about that. And then. Sorry, Jonathan. No, no, no.

Paul (00:35:59) - I was just drawing breath. I'm listening. Carry on.

Caleb (00:36:03) - And then, you know, I get it, though, You know, I'm so I absolutely understand it.

Caleb (00:36:09) - And it links into our conversation that you were referencing about, you know, the funeral, i.e., the celebration of someone's life and actually your your own calls. You know, he might have had a personal purpose. But actually the thing that resonates with everyone else, what's the stories that they tell once you're gone? And and that's sort of how you live your life and what do you want to be remembered for. And so, you know, how many how many conversations do you have with people? And they go, oh, what do you do then? And you go, Wow, I'm an instructional designer title, don't you? You know, any learning developer? And I go, Okay. Oh, that's great. Yeah. My my friend also does that. And then you might get into a conversation. You go, Oh, yeah, this is how we do it, you know, a bit different. And but that then steps into, you know, how you do. But I wanted to almost go really deeper than that and go, Well, why?

Caleb (00:37:08) - Why do you do that?

Caleb (00:37:09) - Why what? You know what? So when I'm not here, what do I want the stories to be that people are going, Oh, you know what? Caleb was always trying to do this.

Caleb (00:37:20) - He was always, you know, and there's an element of how you do things, what you want to be remembered for. But what is that thing that drives you forward every day to get you up? And and I've not nailed that. I'll be really honest. I've not nailed it. So what I want the conversations to be like, what an amazing guy. You know, it was open to conversation. He thought slightly differently. You know, he's always positive about change and they're the sort of things you go, what sets him apart? But what was that thing that was driving him? What was that thing? Getting him out of bed every day. And so I found myself really dwelling on that over the last few weeks and still in this place going, What am I trying to do in life?

Caleb (00:38:12) - Let me let me make it harder because because I if that's possible, good luck. Because I so I'm so pleased when you send it over this morning, because I was thinking, you know, actually and it's nice that you've referenced my uncle as well, because I would like to think that that was his purpose because so many people there thought that what he was really good at.

Caleb (00:38:31) - And and it's sad, isn't it? Because he'll never know that he was so good at it because people tend to sell you off anyway. Whatever. But I was then I'm similar to you. I was thinking, how do you start asking answering that question? I did a bit of sort of dig in and and one thing or another. So I've got a question for both of you, which may or may not help. What three words would you like people to use to describe you? What three words describe you? The best you think? Oh, I guess that's two separate questions, isn't it? Let's do the first one first. What three words do you want people to use to describe you?

Caleb (00:39:13) - Well, we might have to put a cut in this with a bit of music. So we have to think about this.

Caleb (00:39:23) - And for people listening, you know what? It's not just Caleb and Jonathan. They haven't dropped off. They are still here. If you're listening to the podcast, we're thinking it's the hardest question to answer.

Caleb (00:39:34) - But the reason I'm asking it is I think that's critical to knowing what to start to understand what your personal purpose is, because if you know how you want people to describe you or you know what it is that success looks like for you or you, and that's surely that's what you're most passionate about. I don't know.

Caleb (00:39:57) - Say.

Paul (00:39:58) - Do they have to be single words? Could there be like two word phrases?

Caleb (00:40:02) - Seniors, are you Jonathan, You always go for like three gratitudes. Yes. You can use more than one word.

Paul (00:40:07) - I always go for. I've got it.

Jonathan (00:40:09) - Yeah.

Caleb (00:40:12) - Right. Defensive.

Caleb (00:40:13) - Is that one of your words?

Paul (00:40:14) - No. No, it's not.

Caleb (00:40:17) - I you know what I'm thinking is fun, positive and non judgmental. Okay. And the reason why I've put non-judgmental is I. I'm yeah, I'm really working at. So there's always a bias that goes on in your head and I'm really trying to kill that and trying to go. It is what it is. You know, people are people and situations are what they're like.

Caleb (00:40:50) - But I would love that to be the topic of conversation when I'm not here. So someone to go, well, he was a gig, weren't they? And he approached everything head on. Yep. And you know, he just included everyone in those conversations. Doesn't matter what background they were from, you know, what what their circumstances are. It was just like that around everyone.

Caleb (00:41:16) - Okay. How about yourself, Jonathan?

Paul (00:41:19) - So. So my not mindful so just to, you know, aware of what's going on around me. Yeah um critical thinker. So I like pulling together lots and lots of threads from trying to try to see things in the round and then, and then something around solving problems. Yeah. Whether that's, whether that's a two stroke engine or anything else.

Caleb (00:41:46) - That's a bit of a can do attitude. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Let's see what we can do. Yeah.

Caleb (00:41:51) - What would you say? Southwest. Yeah.

Caleb (00:41:53) - Oh, don't throw me under the bus. It was my question.

Caleb (00:41:56) - Like I've felt anything. Do you know what I would say? Creative or innovative, which everyone knows you want to put down. We'll say. We'll say innovative, trying to find a different way of doing stuff positive. And the last one is, I hope, sort of fun loving, I guess. And as in, you do.

Caleb (00:42:22) - Realize you've just pinched two of mine. Well.

Caleb (00:42:25) - Right. And here comes. Yeah, here comes the kicker. Why do you think we get on? You know? And I wonder if there's something in that. I genuinely do.

Caleb (00:42:34) - People like creative and I'm non-judgmental.

Caleb (00:42:38) - Right? Okay. But people like people that like. Then I'm creative. You're nonjudgmental. Yeah, but no, I didn't mean to pick two of yours. But as you were saying, yours, I was thinking, Do you know what? Actually were both of you as you were saying them? I was thinking, Oh, yeah, but you're already those, which is really weird because you may or may or may not think you are.

Caleb (00:42:58) - So that's.

Caleb (00:42:59) - A challenge.

Caleb (00:42:59) - Yes, it is.

Caleb (00:43:00) - That you have to be more aware about yourself. And I'm I listen, I have a great coach in my wife, actually, so she's super grounded and she challenges me all the time on my thinking process, which is why I wanted to include non-judgmental in that because I don't think I am. And she picks me up sometimes when I am, and then I do that to where as well. Now, don't, don't, don't be judgy. But that, you know, that would be the wrong thing for me to sort of look look back on people going, oh, do you know what? It was really fun. And he was super positive. But I mean, I only if you were in the inner circle.

Caleb (00:43:41) - Yeah, right. But to bear in mind the question there was how how would you like to be seen? So I've told you how I would like to be seen Now, how I am seen, I think would be very different.

Caleb (00:43:53) - I think a lot of people would say I'm quite cynical. I think a lot of people might say, You've said positive. I'd like to be seen as being positive. Yeah, we can. I mean, personal personal statement. I put some bits together, but I said I want to be seen as someone who meets my and my family. I mean, criminal kids. Okay. I have a wider family. I'm a kid, so just go with that. I want to teach and show that show them that success is about being the best person they can be, treating everyone as they want to be treated and doing what makes them happy. That's my purpose. That's what I do. Everything I do is for that reason. So to to make the girls realize, you know what, just just do what you want to do, be happy. And this is this is going to sound really do mongering. It's not meant to be, but they're going to work for, what, 50 years of their lives I've worked for.

Caleb (00:44:46) - You know, I started my first job. I was 17, 17, 18. I'm now 53. So I've worked for I've never not had a job, to put it that way, ever. So and I look at that and I think I've really disliked some of those jobs and I would have stayed in some of those jobs for five, six, seven years going, Yeah, I know. But it's quite I hopefully I want them to see it differently. And in fact, this is I'm going to say let's hope they don't listen to this, but, you know, I'll share it. It's the way it is. My younger daughter does some work for me. She works at an art club, which she work she absolutely adores, but she said, No, I want to get something more regular, like we can work. And she and she she applied nothing to do with us. Update The CV went into these interviews hired by a local hotel. This was her first shift was last Wednesday.

Caleb (00:45:44) - I went to drop her off on Thursday and she said I've never seen a like it absolutely burst into tears in a car, said, Dad, I just don't want to go. I said, You're not going. Then what's what's the problem? And she said, Didn't get a break very much is 16. Right? It starts at 4:00. Said I didn't get a break till 10:30. We're very short of people. The managers kept going. Don't worry, it's never normally this bad. What a weird thing to say to someone in their first shift. Said I didn't know where to get changed from a uniform. They said, Oh, no, no, we'll just go and get changed in the toilets or whatever. I mean, it's a really nice hotel. And it was her break. She said. Someone said, Have you not had a break yet? And she said, No. And I went, Well, why didn't you ask? And she said, What is that? What are you talking about? 16 year old? You're just going to walk up to the manager and go, It's my first shift.

Caleb (00:46:26) - I need a break, please. And she said, Oh, no, no, it's fine. So where do I go? Where's the staff room? They went, We just go walk around the shops or go and sit out by the river. And she's like, It's 10:30 at night that there's no shops open. There's nothing going. But anyway, but the point being, don't stay, don't. Do you know what I mean? She's going, Oh, I need to go back. And I said, Meg, you absolutely do not. Don't, don't go. And that is that, that purpose thing is that's I know some people will be listening to this going, well, you just told her to quit then. That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is life's too short for you to be upset about something like that. And they don't value you enough. You. They don't deserve you. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Paul (00:47:07) - I agree with that. Can I put a an alternative? An alternative to that is that when I think about my not going back on that I say again.

Caleb (00:47:19) - She's not going back.

Paul (00:47:20) - No, no, I'm not suggesting that you should think about those. Those. Those. Those jobs that I've done, that all those times where I've been less happy at work. Those things very much influence my purpose, because those are the things that I wanted to make a difference to.

Caleb (00:47:37) - Yeah, right. Yes.

Paul (00:47:38) - And unless I'd experienced those things, then I wouldn't have known. That's there's something about having to. Having to. Having to. To to. To stretch into our. Our.

Jonathan (00:47:51) - Yeah. You know what.

Caleb (00:47:52) - You don't want?

Paul (00:47:53) - In order. In order. In order to.

Jonathan (00:47:54) - To show. Yeah.

Paul (00:47:55) - Where we end up, I think.

Caleb (00:47:58) - Whether you. So we all a lot of people want to focus on the positive thing but sometimes you have to delve into the negative to really drive home you know what you want out of the positive. So, you know, when you're thinking about values in the workplace or what you attach as value in a workplace, you have to know what you don't want in order to really drive home what you do want.

Caleb (00:48:26) - I guess my where where this also started from is our challenge whether there how how we want to be remembered and how we do things. And there is a difference for me. So this is how I want to do things in a fun, positive and non-judgmental way. But that isn't my purpose in life. So I'm thinking like, if if I could say, Well, my only purpose in life is to bring fun and positivity to everyone, then great. I've just nailed it because I think I'm getting two out of three so far. But you know, I don't I don't I'm searching for something that might not even be there. But when we think about, you know, this is what I want to change in the world, I haven't got that connection yet.

Jonathan (00:49:14) - How do you measure your self-worth?

Caleb (00:49:16) - Sorry. Say that again, Jonathan.

Caleb (00:49:18) - Sorry, Jonathan, go ahead.

Paul (00:49:19) - Well, I was just going to ask you a question about about purpose and whether or not we believe that our purpose is kind of like destiny.

Paul (00:49:26) - It's the thing that we're searching to. We're searching to get to. Yeah. Or whether or not our purpose is is created over time. And, and it's how we are purpose is us making sense of the world. So the circumstances we find ourselves in as we make sense of the world around us, that then drives our purpose. So whether it's something that we're walking towards or whether it's something we discover over time as we try to make sense of the circumstances we find ourselves in.

Caleb (00:49:56) - And I think that's that's a similar conversation to where where we are on our journey about, you know, if we were to be if we were employed, we would say, I only want to work for this type of organization. And that's generally based on the values and the culture in the organization. You're still discovering that as a young person, and what you're naturally get to is, I definitely don't want to work for a business that does this, that doesn't give me breaks, that tells me to go and walk by the riverside after ten at night.

Caleb (00:50:29) - But over the life of that person, they'll then go, Oh, actually I'll turn that the other way, the way round. And I want a business that values me, that looks after me, that develops me, that cares about me, and that's their value mechanism. Right? But and, and again, that I think you're right because your purpose evolve. So what? You know what you're striving to achieve. And I think I'm at the point now to go. I'm just sort of learning from my own advice here to go. I know what my purpose isn't and my purpose isn't just to wake up every day and go through the routine and survive life and get a wage and paid the mortgage. Yeah, that is not my purpose in life. There's something that I want to go out of this life. Go in. This is the difference that I made. And. And that's the the journey of discovery that I'm still on. But what I've found is that's really important to me at the minute to find out what that is so someone can go, do you know what these you know, this guy is trying to strive for that, not just in this business, but personally.

Caleb (00:51:39) - This is what he believes in, this what he's trying to strive for.

Caleb (00:51:43) - I think, Caleb, I you know, without bringing it back to, you know, the personal stuff with my uncle, not one person stood up there and went. I went and he was at his desk at 9:00 every day. Not one person had that conversation. It was like, oh, I only work there. So I'd hate to think, you know, that we're I don't know. You're standing there doing a eulogy for me and you're saying, Yeah, but you work really hard, you know, It's like, so what? You know, you're right. I think there is. And can I just pick up on on one other thing, what you're saying about finding, you know, values and finding finding out what that company wasn't, you know, wasn't meeting her values or whatever you were you way around, you put it. That wasn't the problem. The problem, I think, was that they were and we we all need to be very careful with this.

Caleb (00:52:38) - They were saying one thing and showing another. So, you know, she she'd been to an interview when I was saying, oh, we really care about this and we're really doing we'll do this and you'll be buddied up and you'll be this and you'll be that and, you know, and all of these lovely things that she had. And I think in some ways, I think that was the frustration because she's gone into it thinking this sounds great, you know, really going to enjoy it. And then someone just like literally popped her balloon and gone, Yeah, that's not the way it really works. And so I, I loved I love your question. And you're right, it's about personal. But this is why I'm saying I want to be authentic. So if I say this is how I'm going to be, that's what you're going to get. Whereas I think all too easily, there's not many companies are going to put on their website their values. They're all going to put their values on it and none of them are going to be.

Caleb (00:53:24) - Yeah, actually, we're a bit arrogant and no, no one's going to do that. Of course they're not. But I think you can see when someone isn't being genuine about it as well.

Jonathan (00:53:33) - Yeah.

Caleb (00:53:35) - Oh, sorry, Jonathan.

Jonathan (00:53:36) - Go on.

Paul (00:53:37) - No, I just. I was just going to ask you a question. Or at least now is not the time to ask this question, but something you might consider doing in order to discover your purpose would be will be to will be to describe your story today. So I have a very distinct memory of a of meeting someone for the first time. And unlike any other occasion where I had been in a room full of people and got chatting to somebody, have I ever been asked a question? So. So tell me your story. As a as an opening. And that that simple act of talking through my story was really powerful. Because because my brain, because our brains work the way that they do. I picked out particular events in the last 25 years, and it was clear that there was a link between all of them.

Paul (00:54:30) - And all of those things had led to today. And I was able I went away thinking about that, and it had a real influence on what I did next because it was like I'd picked out all of the important moments somehow just by being asked that question. So what's your story? Yeah, what's your highlights?

Caleb (00:54:47) - Reel Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah, yeah.

Jonathan (00:54:50) - And just.

Caleb (00:54:52) - I think that it's such.

Jonathan (00:54:53) - A difference.

Caleb (00:54:54) - Those things then drive that purpose, right? So some of the, your experience in, in life positive and negative drive you to want to do something and I'm going to turn this full circle again right. And to think about my gratitude was this appreciation of bowls. But there was also a gratitude moment in something local in the community. Yeah. And and also reflecting on where we own a cafe over in Yorkshire and we live in Lincolnshire and we've considered moving into Yorkshire. But there's something very compelling about we want to stay in this area like something that's drawing us here.

Caleb (00:55:42) - And after so many years of being here, we both, Amanda and I said, Well, this is home, isn't it? And, and actually just that simple thing. We went, Wow, that is quite a powerful thing for us to say as well. And and the other thing that's really confusing me at the minute about my purposes and agreeing with you, Jonathan, it changes in its shapes. It's like, is there something about the local community that is the purpose and something that I can bring to that as well? And honestly, this is really messing with my mind at the minute to go. I've got I think I've got it now from a business point of view. But when someone says, Tell me about you, tell me your story, then I'm like, Well, I can tell you all the experiences, but I want to tell you what I stand for, what my purpose in life is. And that drives me to make these decisions. And I'm sure it's there. I just need some help to tease that out now and go, I've got if we.

Caleb (00:56:43) - If we were sitting there in in ten years, let's say ten years, in ten years time, we're sitting, I don't know, in an evening somewhere by a pool somewhere we've got a glass of wine in our hands. We've all retired and someone we don't know says, Oh, well, what was it you guys do? Are we still going to say, Well, let me tell you about all the jobs I had. It's not going to absolutely not going to happen. I hope. I genuinely hope it doesn't. I want to say, oh, actually, I'm vice captain of Bowls club and or the local, you know, whatever it may be. And I support this or I do this or I go, you know, most weekends I'm out on me off roading. Brompton Whatever it may be, I don't know. But I genuinely hope that that's a conversation that we'll have rather than let me tell you what I did for 60 years of work. But there's got to be more to it.

Caleb (00:57:33) - Because the next so the stuff that you've just said would be what I do. And then my response to that would be, well, why do you do that? And then that's the killer response that I want something, I'm craving something. And it's not like I'm craving something in me that wants to go and I do it because of this. It enriches the lives of people because of this.

Caleb (00:58:04) - It felt like a real pithy moment that it felt like. But you had. You had to do some. You had a question which I which I've then cut. And I'm also looking at the time and thinking, oh, my goodness, we can dig into another hour of this.

Paul (00:58:16) - I was just going to make an offer. I was going to offer to sit and listen to Caleb's story for a couple of hours. And having listened to your story, let's pull out those moments nice that have shaped your purpose and begin to discover what it is that.

Caleb (00:58:32) - I want to do that.

Caleb (00:58:35) - Excellent.

Jonathan (00:58:35) - We're on.

Caleb (00:58:36) - What we were was kind of making a commitment to himself to to organize that. And by the way, you've said that live on here. So people are going to chase up his.

Paul (00:58:44) - Life to the nation.

Caleb (00:58:45) - It's absolutely going to happen. Talking of stories and things. What have you been what you've been investigating, listening to watching Jonathan, you go first.

Paul (00:58:57) - I have not been watching a huge amount, but I've watched a. I'm watching an old series on BBC at the moment, a psychological drama called Behind Her Eyes. It's on the it's on the iPlayer. It's probably, I don't know, 5 or 6 years old. I just needed something to watch over the weekend. I don't know why I ended up watching that, but it's it's it's interesting.

Caleb (00:59:24) - Is it gritty? Well.

Paul (00:59:26) - It's a psychological drama. So the basic premise is three people, a psychiatrist, his wife and his secretary, he meets. It starts with the psychiatrist and his secretary meeting in a pub. They've both gone there to meet someone else.

Paul (00:59:48) - And. And they don't know each other at all. At this moment. They end up talking and they at the end of the evening, having had a couple of couple of drinks in kissing, the secretary goes to work the following day, starting her new job, and as she walks through this or discovers that the person she kissed last night was her new boss. And so and so and so it goes on.

Caleb (01:00:07) - God damn it. Well.

Caleb (01:00:11) - I've not heard of it.

Paul (01:00:12) - It's just. It's just beginning to get creepy.

Caleb (01:00:15) - How many.

Jonathan (01:00:17) - Episodes is.

Caleb (01:00:17) - Like, six parts or something? Is it?

Paul (01:00:19) - Yeah, it's. I think it's about six.

Caleb (01:00:20) - Cool. What about you, Caleb?

Caleb (01:00:23) - Nothing as highbrow as that. I have been absorbing myself in at home with the Furies, which I.

Caleb (01:00:30) - Oh, I've not seen it.

Jonathan (01:00:34) - It's just.

Caleb (01:00:36) - It's a chaotic rollercoaster of a watch, actually. But I. There's something really compelling about watching the chaos ensue.

Jonathan (01:00:47) - Okay.

Caleb (01:00:48) - Recommend.

Caleb (01:00:49) - It Sounds interesting.

Caleb (01:00:50) - So I've got two and you said about highbrow I'll do the non highbrow one first. We watched something last night after being told by numerous people, you know put your preconceived ideas to one side, give it a chance. There's a Wham documentary on Netflix and it was outstanding. Jonathan, you've just done a thumbs up there. I don't know if that was for WAM in general or whether it was the documentary, but.

Paul (01:01:14) - Yeah, it sounds good.

Caleb (01:01:16) - It's very, very good. And I think what blew me away was when the opening line, I think Andrew Ridgeley said, Yeah, we met when we were 12, so that was what, 1975? And I went, excuse me, you know, we're talking about what they can't have in old. And they're like, Yeah, yeah, they are. But yeah, it's just all about it's fascinating. It's a fascinating behind the curtain look into I think everyone thinks it's all George Michael, George, Michael, George, Michael and his other guys sort of toeing along and, you know, and making money out of the back of it.

Caleb (01:01:49) - It was complete and utter opposite. So George Margaret want to do any of it? It was all set up by Andrew originally and he was one of right. And anyway, just just watch. It is so, so well done. And obviously part of the way through it. George Michael comes out to Andrew Ridgeley. But and that's the fascinating thing because it then plays on of Yeah, but you can't tell anyone. And the whole thing about Yes, but you've got all of these girls are coming to see your concerts, you're going to lose all that if you. So it's his battle between him being himself versus honestly it's 90 minutes well worth your time. And the good news for me, well, there wasn't much music in it, which was great. So that was that bit. Claire loved it. And the other thing, and we've got six episodes, we've binge two seasons, which we never do. We were just looking for something to watch. Went on to the we watched Hijack, firstly with Idris Elba, which is quite good.

Caleb (01:02:42) - It was okay. And then there was something else recommended and it's called Slow Horses, and it's with Gary Oldman, the oldman on it. He rips it up in a Gary Oldman style. Is it's it's amusing. It's really well acted. It's very well done. It's your laugh at it that the the premise is they've got MI5, they call it the park, which I presume is in hypocrisy. I don't know. But anyway, got MI5 and all this high end sort of spy work. And then you've got all of the spies who have royally screwed up at some point, and they're all offloaded to this place called Slough House, which is where? Gary Oldman basically. So they're a complete bunch. There's about 5 or 6 of them. Complete misfit, MI5, disgraced agents. It's excellent. I mean, whatever you're thinking, just give it your watch. 1 or 2 season one's better than season two. It's fair to say season two is pretty good. But honestly, we just said, Oh, let's give it a chance.

Caleb (01:03:43) - And then we were four in going, Yeah, we have those four hours just gone. We never do that. But honestly, put it on your list. Slow horses. There's another season coming later this year. So but the first two, the first season in particular. Gary Oldman is Gary Oldman. He's one of those people, isn't he? We just think I'd hate to I'd hate to act against him as. Alongside him because he must be so intimidating. But he's just brilliant.

Caleb (01:04:08) - Yes, I shall. I've kept seeing that on Apple.

Caleb (01:04:11) - You'll love it, mate. It's so sarcastic. It's so you'll love him as a character because he's horrible. He's such. He's one of those characters. And you just think.

Jonathan (01:04:20) - That was not.

Caleb (01:04:20) - A my three words. He wasn't.

Caleb (01:04:23) - Them. It wasn't. But honestly, you know what I mean? You're watching you go, Oh, my God. He's just he's. He's brilliant. He's absolutely brilliant. Yeah, They've all got a story to tell.

Caleb (01:04:33) - Put it that way.

Caleb (01:04:34) - Fabulous.

Caleb (01:04:35) - Slow horses, right? Well, there we are. We are. Now what? We've just gone over the hour, just. We've literally gone over the hour. So we felt like we opened a bit of a can of worms there. And I don't think we've finished it off either. So are we revisiting and looking at stories at some point?

Caleb (01:04:53) - Well, I think, as we've said, right, our personal purposes will probably change. And, you know, my next step, I think what I feel really good about is actually having a conversation with Jonathan to go. Right. Let me start exploring this, because this is getting under my skin at the minute to go. I want I want some ink that that I can, you know, sort of say this is what I stand for.

Caleb (01:05:19) - I'm not meaning to monopolize this, but there's a couple of before you sent out what you sent out, I found I've been trying to look for some prompts for my journaling and some quite deeper level ones I keep going back to, says one.

Caleb (01:05:34) - I keep sort of adding to and I've got sort of three, so if I can I chuck them out. I don't expect answers now by any stretch. But again, if anyone's listening and they want to drop us a note on LinkedIn or whatever. So the first one is what does it mean to have a good life? So if you were to look back and go, Yeah, I had a really good life because so that might help you with that personal purpose because that would be okay. What did I get out of it? What was what was that about? And don't just say I work 40 hours a week for a many weeks. That's the first one. The second one that I'm really struggling with is how do I measure my self-worth so that that one I struggle with because I'm thinking I just want people to be happy. Yeah, but what does that look like? What does that feel like? How do I know whether that's happening or not? And how do I get to be better at it? And the last one, which I've had been going on for a while, is what do I need right now more than anything else? Now, if your answer to that is a Sonos era 300 and a new soundbar, that's possibly you're not digging deep enough.

Caleb (01:06:41) - If you're doing it. What do I need right now more than anything else? And I think when you start asking those sort of questions, start reflecting those sort of questions, that's when you start getting closer to your personal purpose. So, yeah, apologies if that was all very heavy, those last three, because they're just three that I'm trying to they're the ones that I can't answer, but I want to be better at answering and I've been trying to work towards answering them.

Caleb (01:07:03) - Yeah, and you know what? Without sort of trying to extend this episode as well, I think all the guests that we've had on this podcast will get some insight as well from some of those questions because I think we've had those type of guests on our podcast that connect with all of that actually. And I'm just reflecting on, you know, the circle of friends that we've created as part of this podcast who can help us with all of that.

Caleb (01:07:34) - No, I totally I'd love to get some answers to some of those things.

Caleb (01:07:38) - You know, I think Ian Sarsen would know how we measures his self-worth, for example. He just would.

Caleb (01:07:46) - I'm thinking there is an event here, an online event that we can.

Caleb (01:07:51) - Love that you imagine bringing those people in and just having those three questions.

Jonathan (01:07:55) - Oh, cool.

Caleb (01:07:55) - We're trying to discover this.

Caleb (01:07:58) - Right. Well, there you go. There's one for us to plan. If I'm going to press a button, which will give you about 10s to think about your thumb up. So good luck. And before you jump in, by the way, last month was a car crash without you there?

Jonathan (01:08:16) - That's 10s gone.

Paul (01:08:18) - Well, I don't even know where to begin because we've. We've we've. We've taken inspiration from all over the place. Um, in terms of summing up, then we've been talking about personal purpose. And I think it would be fair to say that we've discovered that it's really difficult to, to, to find our personal purpose, but we all recognize that that's really important if we're going to be intentional in the way that we live our lives.

Paul (01:08:44) - So we're going to go away and we're going to do some more thinking about it without wishing to cop out. But we'll come back with some answers in future episodes. Thank you for listening.