I Love it Here

From anxiety to TEDx: Gemma Sandwell's journey to finding her authentic self

June 02, 2023 Caleb Foster, Paul Westlake, Jonathan Cooper, Gemma Sandwell Season 1 Episode 16
I Love it Here
From anxiety to TEDx: Gemma Sandwell's journey to finding her authentic self
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode of "I Love It Here," we had the pleasure of speaking with Gemma Sandwell, an energy alignment coach. Gemma shared her journey from working in the corporate world to setting up her own business and how she overcame extreme social anxiety using positive psychology. We also discussed the pressure of being a highly sensitive person (HSP) in a corporate environment and the importance of psychological safety and a growth mindset.

Gemma emphasized the need for self-awareness and understanding one's authentic self to determine what kind of self-care works best for them. She shared her experience of setting firm boundaries and taking care of herself before her TEDx talk, which helped her deliver her message effectively. We also discussed the importance of recognizing one's strengths and superpowers, rather than feeling the pressure to have all the answers.

We also talked about the societal impact of rewarding those who shout the loudest and the challenges of being authentic in the workplace. The conversation then shifts to the topic of artificial intelligence (AI) and the potential risks it poses to humanity. We highlighted the importance of being mindful of the impact of technology and the need for leaders to prioritise empathy and flexibility in their approach to managing teams.

Overall, the episode encourages listeners to prioritise their well-being and align their values with their work to create a fulfilling experience. So, if you want to learn more about how to overcome social anxiety, the importance of self-care, and the impact of AI, tune in to this episode of "I Love It Here."

As Gemma Sandwell says, "Test out what works for you." So, go ahead and listen to the full episode to find out what works for you.

Links & Mentions
Coaching in the Great Unknown by John Ballen - mentioned by speaker 3 at 00:13:35
Coaching with the Brain in Mind by David Rock - mentioned by speaker 3 at 00:15:55

SCARF model by David Rock - mentioned by speaker 3 at 00:15:55

Agent GPT (chat GPT) - a tool for self-learning AI conversation, mentioned at 00:50:42

BBC News article on AI and the risk of extinction, featuring Sam Altman (CEO of OpenAI) and the executive of Google DeepMind, mentioned at 00:52:11

Large language models used in AI, mentioned at 00:53:58

TV Shows:
Ted Lasso (mentioned by speaker 5 at 00:56:22)
Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland (mentioned by speaker 4 at 00:56:40)

Connect with our hosts
If you'd like to connect with us or influence the conversations we have, reach out and connect with us:
Slack Community: https://iloveithere.slack.com
Paul Westlake: https://www.linkedin.com/in/westyphotography
Caleb Foster: https://www.linkedin.com/in/calebafoster
Jonathan Cooper: https://www.linkedin.com/in/unlearningcoach

Speaker 0 (00:00:00) - Welcome to, I Love it here, a place where we discuss and share our thoughts on various topics, all focused on making life and work a better experience for everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:00:26) - Hello and welcome to another episode of I Love It Here, a place where we aim to offer little nuggets of inspiration to support people's lives for our conversation experiences. Your host today and myself, Caleb Foster, Paul Westlake, and Jonathan Cooper. And I'm really pleased to introduce our guest today, Gemma Sandwell. So without further ado, let's get into a great chat, Gemma, for those people that may not know you, tell us a little bit about what you do and why you do it.

Speaker 3 (00:00:57) - Great, thanks ca. Can I just say I love that introduction to the podcast? It felt like I was in the Caribbean . I'm loving that .

Speaker 2 (00:01:04) - Yeah. Not the only one to say that.

Speaker 3 (00:01:06) - Certainly not a Caribbean day here today in Suffolk, so that was lovely. Oh,

Speaker 2 (00:01:10) - They, it go to the beach and

Speaker 4 (00:01:12) - I was just about to say the same, we we only train that music cause you said you'd been to the beach . We're that flexible on this show. We, we just,

Speaker 3 (00:01:19) - You know, that's amazing. That's, well welcome. I'm much appreciated. I can pretend I've been to the Caribbean today

Speaker 2 (00:01:24) - And we can pretend that this is all personalized .

Speaker 4 (00:01:28) - Exactly. .

Speaker 3 (00:01:31) - Yeah. So thank you, um, for the warm welcome to the podcast. Um, I am, yeah, I'm an energy alignment coach and um, I help people to align to their most authentic selves. And this has been over a kind of 17 year journey, um, from working in corporate, working in leadership development in a blue chip company, um, to then leaving and setting up my business. And, um, I've kind of gone from a space of, I used to have really quite extreme anxiety. Um, I couldn't even speak in a, in a meeting with five people. That's how severe my social anxiety was. And using the tools that I now help my clients with, um, I've been able to overcome that anxiety. In 2019. I did a TEDx, I've spoken on several stages, um, and I now run, um, a really aligned business and help clients to, to do the same. So it's been like a very long sort of 17 years of learning and failing and, um, bringing together all of the tools. And in particular, one of the, the most important tools that I find is, is positive psychology. That has really shifted my life and, um, and their tools that I, that I use every day and bring into my work, bring in with clients, um, which has made a big difference. So if you want me to expand on that, I can, but there's kind of a brief intro. ,

Speaker 2 (00:02:50) - I, I mean, straight away I'm already thinking I, I wish I, um, knew you when I was working in a corporate organization cause there were so many people that, um, I, I've never really suffered with, um, having conversations in front of people. And it just didn't recognize in my mind when I was asking other people to do that. And, and they would sort of look at me with dread in their eyes. And I think I've referred to it on the podcast before that, um, I asked someone in my team to, um, just do a presentation to, um, directors and a group of l and d people. And, and of course I went, yeah, yeah, I can organize that. And I didn't see 'em for a, a few days and then they, they sort of came back and said, can I have a chat with you? But I do not want to do this. I'm dreading this. I hate it. And it just didn't register with me. And I think, God, if only I could have first of all recognized that, but then had some way of support in that person through that anxiety, that would've been amazing actually back then. Um, it,

Speaker 4 (00:04:00) - It's interesting, Caleb, could you know what people that do this stuff for a living? Well, it's two, two things for me. One, we, we are basically presenters as a part of a living. Really. We are all in, in l and d or, um, and, and I think there's that assumption then that we are just good at that stuff and it just comes naturally to us. And I dunno, I, I'll, I'll be honest, I get ridiculously nervous delivering a course, even if it's a course that maybe I've done a dozen times before and I know inside out and I know no one in that room's gonna ask a question that's gonna trip me up. And then afterwards they go, yeah, but it's all right for you cuz you are presenter. That's what you do. And you think it, it really isn't alright for me. It's the same for me as, as it is with other people.

Speaker 4 (00:04:42) - But then when you get to your point, when you then talk to other people, go, I'm really nervous about it, people like ourselves saying, oh, don't worry about it, it'll be fine. That that just doesn't help, does it? That that doesn't help at all. Someone just saying, I'll just go and present. What's the worst thing can happen? I hate that phrase here. What's the worst thing can happen? You think when they've already playing that through in their heads right? They know what the worst thing can happen can happen is. So I, I think it, it, it becomes easy for us to say, oh, it's easy. Just do it. But it really, really isn't. And for some people, and Jeremy, you know, you've got way more knowledge on this than we have. But some people, it, it's, it's beyond just a, I don't really fancy it, isn't it? I mean, it can be like almost a sort of crippling thing. They just can't do it. They physically can't do it. Mm-hmm. .

Speaker 3 (00:05:25) - Yeah, I think, I think for me there was like this, and I think for a lot of people listening, this will resonate. Like there was this inner like thing in me that like wanted to do that and saw that as like, wow, I, I wanna be on that stage one day, but I just don't feel anywhere near that. Like right now is is where I was at. And I think this will resonate with a lot of people. Um, and actually like a lot of it, um, a lot of it came back to self-care, interestingly enough. If you and people ask this all the time, like, how did you do a TEDx? I'm, I'm a massive introvert and I'm so highly sensitive and so many people say to me, like, how did you do that? Like, knowing your story, knowing your background, like how did you get on that stage?

Speaker 3 (00:06:09) - And one of the biggest things was self-care because the reality was that I wasn't looking after myself as much as I, I could have done. I was in, I was working in London a lot of the week, like in all that hustle and um, you know, really like trying to play the extrovert game for many years of my career. And, um, yeah, when I just stopped and aligned to like, okay, this is what I need, that confidence then came to get on that stage. Um, so I think like for some people it'll be like, yeah, no, I don't wanna do that. That's not me. Someone else can, someone else can do that. There's someone else in the team who's like, got that as a strength. And then there's probably gonna be like, and I'm guessing like some of the guests listening are here because they want to grow and develop and they see that like in themselves, I'm like, yes, I could be that person. I could be on that stage one day. I w I want to do that. Um, and it was that, that really kind of sparked that for me and moved me, moved me forward from that place. So, um, yeah, for anyone listening, if you are in that, you know, if you're in that now and you're thinking, I wanna do that, I really wanna do that, um, then it is possible for you,

Speaker 4 (00:07:12) - Jim, can we, can we dig into the, the, the TED talk bit a bit mm-hmm.  because I, I, I think the majority of people listening to this and certainly us three on here, you know, one of our go-to places is, is TED Talks and you know, just, just finding out, just interesting stuff, right? And you learn so much from it. Couple of bits for me on that. So did you find that more or less, I'll say intimidating, but you know what I mean, to, to be talking in front of a big group like that where those people are there and they've almost chosen to be there to listen to you versus maybe a small group in, in the office in London. I I, I know most people probably think, well, of course it'd be more worry in being on stage. Is that, is that the case with you?

Speaker 3 (00:07:57) - Um, it's just reflecting on this myself, um, there was kind of different things about it. So with TEDx it was much more like structured and I had to remember my talk word for word. I had a countdown timer in front of me. It was like the pressure was really on. Um, and like I kind of knew what I was saying, knew what I was gonna deliver. Um, nothing could, unless there was like tech failures and things, nothing could really come sort of at me left field with that. Cuz this, it was more like, okay, we go on stage, we know what we're saying, we're saying it, if it's the theme, it's being approved. Um, with those, yeah, with those like smaller groups, I guess it was, it was different in terms of, um, like the questions that could come up. Um, so something could come left field and it did come left field , um, especially when I was doing like leadership development and um, more in like the coaching space. I was training coaches. Um, I was training leaders to become coaches and that's where it got a bit left field because, you know, I had like technical experts who were learning coaching and things like that. So I'd just say it was different. I'd just say it was different. They both required, um, confidence, um, and a lot of self-care around that. And I'd love to know your views on that, um, the rest of you, your thoughts on that, but that Yeah, it it was the same but different if that answers the question.

Speaker 2 (00:09:27) - I, I feel like Jonathan had a question there, but I'll, I'll, I'll jump in at you when my thoughts around the, the difference in I think a corporate environment is that there's a way to carry that. You are supposed to be the subject matter expert. Mm-hmm. . And, and actually a lot of people, um, get worried about are they doing the wrong thing or not knowing the answer. And actually I think it's, I think we've moved on quite substantially, um, in a work environment over the last few years ago. It's absolutely fine if you haven't got all the answers or you get things wrong. Now we haven't, we haven't actually cracked that. Not completely, but, you know, it is fine. And that's part of learning and growing anyway, to not know everything and to get things, you know, wrong or lean on somebody else. And you know, you, you shouldn't be held accountable to say, I know everything.

Speaker 2 (00:10:28) - And I, I wonder if that's part of the pressure that weighs on people to go, I've gotta get everything right and I've gotta be perfect in this because I'm being judged by, by my peers and my boss at, at some point. And, uh, and you know, and if, if people were a lot more open-minded in organizations, they would go, listen, it really doesn't matter. Mm-hmm. We know what your skills, you know, what your skills are, what your unique ability is, and we, you know, we love you for being you. Uh, you know, that's, that's a thing, right? Uh, I, and it's funny, even though I've just said that , I, I'm just reflecting on my son actually coming home and worrying that he hasn't done everything perfectly. And I've said to him, what are you doing? He said, I'll write stuff down. I said, you are already on that journey then. But do you think that you've been recruited for the technical knowledge, the deep technical knowledge that you, you think that you have or haven't got? Or do you think you've been recruited for the personality and the behavior that you've got went Well, I think they, like me, I went, well, you've just answered my question then. That you've been recruited for the person you are, not necessarily that you know everything because nobody's expected that of you.

Speaker 5 (00:11:45) - I've worked in an environment where I couldn't possibly know everything. And actually the skill was knowing where to go to find out. And because, I mean, and even more so these days when there is so much information, actually finding out and being able to interrogate that and to use that competently and, and be able to differentiate between what's good and what's not so good is the skill. It's not the technical knowledge itself. Mm-hmm. . And so we rely far more on kind of those, those that ability to differentiate rather than just have being a, being a library ourselves.

Speaker 4 (00:12:19) - That, that takes a lot of confidence though. Right. So, I mean, obviously I can only reflect on, on on me, but I hate not knowing. I, I hate someone asking me a question, especially if it's something that in theory should be my, I, I'll do those awful layer quotes and say something I should know about or something I should be an expert on. So if if they've come to me specifically for that and I can't answer it, I'll beat myself up about that. Something chronic who's e even to the point you, I'll give you, I'll give you a real example. Um, my wife asked me about, uh, editing video yesterday. They've, they've got cctv, um, they've got to blur out some faces in this piece of video. And she says, how do I do that? And I'm thinking, well, good luck. Could, you know, I I've got software that does that after years of blooming training. Yeah, it'll take me 10 minutes. And she said, no, I don't want you to do it cause I don't wanna come to you every time. So just, just how do I do it? And I found her a bit of software and she goes, well, I really don't understand. And then I start beating myself up because I've given her bad advice, which I don't, I dunno how to overcome that. I dunno how to stop being that person who worries cause I might not have the answers.

Speaker 3 (00:13:25) - There's something in this for me that's coming up in this conversation about coaching. Um, there's a great book by John Ballin that's called, I think it's, I

Speaker 6 (00:13:35) - Got it on my bookshelf. It's something like the power of, yeah, here it is.

Speaker 3 (00:13:39) - Um, coaching in the Great Unknown. Um, and yeah, there's something here about how empowering it is. So if anyone listening like resonates with that, like, oh, like what if I dunno the answers or like, you might have had a pass in the past, like being a technical expert and like people come to you for the answers and suddenly something changes and you don't know the answers anymore. Or in your, you know, in your scenario wey, you, you didn't have that solution at that, at that right time. There's real power in actually not knowing. And this is like, this has shown neuro scientifically, um, and this is like, this has been mind blown for me since becoming a coach has been like, wow, like seeing the shifts that happen when I don't know. And I go, right, well I don't actually know Esty, what's true for you?

Speaker 3 (00:14:27) - And then you stop and go, oh, I don't know. And what I've seen happen with clients is that little moment, that little, like when when a client tells me they don't know, and then I say, but what if you did know? What would that be? That can just be enough to go. And then the thought comes, um, and I see this happen time and time again. So yeah, this is like, this is a great book for anyone listening. John Ballen coaching in the Great Unknown. And he even says, why not knowing matters more than you know mm-hmm . Because when we can hold that space for people to come to their own decisions, their own empowerment, it shifts them far more than us ever having the answer. So there's something in that I believe, um,

Speaker 4 (00:15:08) - They don't need to be psychologically safe to do that. Gemer, is that a, is that a, a, um, a culture we need to have in place in the first place? And is that part of the problem that businesses still don't have that it's still not okay to not know?

Speaker 3 (00:15:22) - Yeah, I think that's a great point, isn't it? It's, um, yeah, there's two things coming up there. Psychological safety and growth mindset, which of course like help each other. But yeah, if we've, you know, if there's that culture of asking questions and not knowing, and you know, that needs to be role modeled from senior leadership, doesn't it? Like I don't have all the answers like, what do you think? What are your, like what are your thoughts on this? Um, because in a culture that's not used to that, it can feel very like a threat state. Which actually, funnily enough,  as if my magic

Speaker 4 (00:15:54) - Case,

Speaker 3 (00:15:55) - I was doing Facebook Live and this book featured on it earlier,  Coaching with the Brain in Mind by David Rock, that was really funny. Um, and he talks about that, like how we do need to go above and beyond, I dunno if anyone's seen the scarf model by David Rock, like we need to go above, really recommend the scarf model. Um, David gives a lot of information, but it's really basic, um, status, certainty, autonomy, relatedness and fairness. You get those five factors into a conversation and it's psychologically safe. So yeah, in coaching, you know, we make sure it's confidential and it's contracted and um, and that the person has a choice. So this choice could even be like, here's a, like here's a little tip for anyone listening. Like, okay, um, okay, I'm just gonna pick on Caleb. Okay, Caleb, let's go have a conversation. Um, do you wanna have this conversation in a meeting room? Do you wanna go to a cafe or do you wanna go for a walk? Like even if I really don't like, or even if I have an option that I prefer just asking you that and your brain goes, oh, I've got a choice, therefore it must be safe. Like that little bit of safety, safety go for walk. Yeah, I'd pick that one too. . Yeah, you're going

Speaker 4 (00:17:09) - For a walk to a coffee shop though.

Speaker 2 (00:17:10) - I know. . Yeah. Yeah, that'd be the end point.

Speaker 3 (00:17:14) - . Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:17:15) - I, you, Janelle, I'm just picking up on your point as well, Wey is that you, you, you are probably holding yourself accountable for knowing all of that because the expectation from someone who's asked a question isn't that you will know the, the answer, but they've asked you because you might be the type of person that says, you know, I don't know, but leave it with me because I wanna know the answer to that as well. But you are measuring that first response rather than actually they've come to me because I'm, you know, I'm a trusted advisor to that person. And it, you know, it might take you another week or a few days to get back to 'em, but that's your superpower cuz you'll go, oh, I'm like a dog with a bone on this. I don't know straight away, but I will find out. And that's the bit that they really want from you. Yeah, I don't actually want the immediate answer sometimes.

Speaker 4 (00:18:11) - Yeah. I, I I think that's, you know, me too well that, that, that, that's very fair. And they will, they'll, they'll do that. So maybe I should see that as more of a, they haven't asked me if, I dunno, I've been caught out. They've asked me because they trust my knowledge when I've gone to find out. Right.

Speaker 2 (00:18:25) - I, I think your, the language there straight away, nobody's trying to catch you out. You are, you've put that there already. Oh,

Speaker 4 (00:18:31) - Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (00:18:33) - Loving this kind of coaching,  inaction, calling out each other super power strengths. That's like, that's positive psychology and action right here. I love that. And that's so true. And there's always, there's always a gift in that. Like, in those moments where we feel like, oh, I must have all the answers, it's like, actually wey. Like, you know, you'll always find the answer as, as Caleb said, that's your gift. That is your gift. So there's always those moments where we're like, oh. It's like, okay, do you know what I have that like, driving me to go find that answer and that is my gift. So there's always a gift in those moments. So yeah, a good call out of strengths in the moment there. Love that. Love it.

Speaker 2 (00:19:11) - Yeah. Love it. Er

Speaker 5 (00:19:13) - Jonathan, I've got que I've got a question based on, so you've used the, you've used the phrase self-care several times since we started and, and, and I've, and I've highlighted that as really been a critical, um, critical part of your journey and something that's important for, um, others in order for us to be able to, um, to move forward. Tell us a little bit more about the role self-care has played in your journey and and give us some hints and tips as to how we might be more caring of ourselves.

Speaker 3 (00:19:44) - Yeah, great question. And first little hint is it's not bubble like bubble baths, ,

Speaker 5 (00:19:50) - .

Speaker 3 (00:19:51) - We see that, don't we? A lot of like, I have a bubble bath. Um, yeah. So, um, not just bubble baths. I mean we love bubble baths, but not, not just bubble baths. Um, yeah, so I think for me, TEDx was my first like, wow moment of like, I really need to take care of myself and then practicing it. So, um, firstly it's about having that awareness of who we are authentically. So for me it was like, wow, actually I am an introvert. Wow. I am H S P I am highly sensitive. Wow. Okay. Let's see why he authentically am. So I need something a little bit different. Um, so what is it that I need? And it was kind of a, a trial and error process. Um, so with TEDx I knew that I needed my energy to be in the best place ever to be on that stage.

Speaker 3 (00:20:39) - So it was like, what do I need? Like what works for me and my energy? So it's like right when I, I lived in the middle of the countryside at the time, so it was like, wow. When I, when I live in the countryside and I spend that time at home and I work from home and I can see my, like fields out the window and I walk through the fields, I walk in the woods, that really nourishes me. That really fills my cup. Working in London doesn't. So I had to set some really firm boundaries in place and say to my boss at the time, like, I'm not gonna be able to work in London for a couple of weeks. Like, I'll be there fully present, but need to work from home. Thankfully, he was really supportive of that. Um, and then on the day of TEDx, so I knew that it was gonna take a lot to get me on that stage, like energetically, cuz I am a natural introvert.

Speaker 3 (00:21:28) - Um, and I was on at four o'clock when I found out I was on at four, I was like, how am I gonna like get through the day and still be okay? Um, so I, I drove there. So the car was my safe space. So I watched a few of the talks and then I would go sit in the car, meditated in the car, um, did lots of breathing in the car. Um, I went and got myself a salad for lunch because they put on a, a buffet of sandwiches, which I thought, that'd be wonderful. I'll eat bread by four o'clock. , I won't be like, so the, the self-care that I needed on that day and around that day. And there was also a networking meal afterwards where there were, cause there were celebrities that came and spoke at the TED event that I was at.

Speaker 3 (00:22:10) - I noticed people like, wow, you're crazy. Like not going to the networking meal. I was just like, no, I just know after that, like, after doing that, that's such a big thing for me. I need to go and be on the sofa. So I was like on the sofa with a pizza while everyone else is at the networking meal. And that has been like a journey of trial and errors since then of like, who am I, what do I need? Um, and what I need and what you all need will be, will be different. Um, and then it's just testing those things out. So it might be the bubble bath, um, or it might be a boundary. Um, speaking that boundary, what do I need? What works for me? What puts my energy into a great place? Because actually, and it was also that reflection of, and I think a lot of people were listening, you know, you've all got, you've all got your own mission, like, and your goals that you wanna achieve.

Speaker 3 (00:23:00) - Like, it was like, okay, doing TEDx and speaking that message and being able to help that many people. This is bigger than any of those thoughts around why I can't set those boundaries. So it was kind of that mission that that kind of really drove that self-care for me. It was like, I need to be my best self so I can help others. And this is bigger than like all of those thoughts about, I can't ask to work from home. I can't, you know, I can't go for my walk. I can't get nature. I can't eat nourishing food, you know, I ha I have to eat the buffet that TEDx provides and things like that. So, you know, really small things. Um, but it was kind of that mission that got me there. And I still, you know, I still go back to that now.

Speaker 3 (00:23:38) - I say this to my clients a lot, like your mission and like the goals that you wanna achieve. Um, whether that is, you know, supporting your family or helping people through your work or helping your team or being, you know, I've even got a client at the moment who wants to be a politician. Like whatever that mission is for you that is bigger than, like, it's bigger than those thoughts that you have about why you can't do those self-care things. So that, that kind of moves you through that. So that was what I, what I did and trialed, trialed and errored, um, process to get to that point of self-care. And now I'm quite clear on, okay, this is me. These are my boundaries. This is what I need. I'm gonna go walk by the sea today, get some C air cause I know that's gonna help nourish me so that I can be my best and show up for this podcast. That's, is that correct

Speaker 4 (00:24:27) - Chairman? What do you think he would've said if you'd have done that and your boss had said, no, actually we want you in the office. That's what we do here.

Speaker 3 (00:24:35) - That's a great question. Um, so I did have some of those conversations through that, through that time. And I did have to, I did have to really stand up for myself and say, look, you want the best from me, this is how you're gonna get the best from me. Um, sometimes it landed, sometimes it didn't. Um, yeah, I don't actually know. Thinking back, what would I have? I think I would've definitely challenged it. I was certainly in that place where I would've challenged it and given that perspective that actually, like, I'm helping all these people sharing this message. Yeah. Um, so this is like, this is bigger than that. And yeah, I think I would've definitely challenged it. I mean obviously if, if he'd have then said, right, well you're gonna be sacked if you don't come into the office. Um, yeah. Like that could have been an interesting conversation. But then I, I then left to sort of start my business anyway. But, um, yeah. Interesting, interesting. I think a lot of people do face those challenges in reality. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:25:38) - Sure. I think, I think they do. And I think that's, but I think we are maturing as a, as individuals in a workplace that actually, you know, there is always an organization that suits you and a, you know, a new suit and organization. And so there would've been a moment where you'd gone actually I, my own care and my self care is more important than having to go into the office and mm-hmm. . And actually if, if the organization and my boss cannot see by getting the best out of me, I need to do X, Y, and Z, then they need to support me on that and vice versa. Mm-hmm.  then, you know, you'd probably get to a point to go, well, this thing in my life is probably not helping my self-care and therefore I need to change that aspect of it. But that, you know, that takes quite a brave decision. Mm-hmm.  and a mindset shift to go, I, I am connected with this organization based on their purpose and how they treat people rather than it's just a monetary value that I'm getting at the end of every month.

Speaker 3 (00:26:45) - Yeah. It comes into, comes into that alignment and values, doesn't it as well, because I, I knew in that organization that my, my values were in alignment with their values. And I know that, that sometimes that message translation sometimes gets lost in the middle management kind of piece. Um, but yeah, you know, if it was not in alignment with my values, um, and there have been moments where my values haven't been misaligned, um, have been misaligned, sorry, to an organization or to a leader or, you know, and it's, yeah, like no having that integrity and I think this is just all about getting to know ourselves and we know who we are, what we stand for, what our values is, what our, our purpose is, like here, what our mission is to do. And then like, does it align with that? If it doesn't, okay, well I, I will find something that does align and then having the confidence to speak that and to speak. And I think like step one is like getting to know ourselves and then step two is being able to communicate that and take that further into that space of action.

Speaker 2 (00:27:54) - I, I don't, I really wanna delve into that even more cuz I, I keep thinking about, um, connecting with organization. But before we do that, I, um, I'd love to tease into, uh, some gratitude moments. Actually I'd love, I I did speak to, uh, Gemma last week actually, so this is isn't a surprise. I'd love to find out what your gratitude moment for, uh, either this week or month is.

Speaker 3 (00:28:20) - So my gratitude moment has to be, um, today I was at the beach a lunchtime. Um, but there's like, there's a connection to all of this, which links to my car. So, um, my car was repaired through quite an unfortunate incident where a drunk driver hit my car, um, while it was parked on the road, which sounds like an awful experience, but actually through that process my car's been repaired. I had the most loveliest hire car that had heated seat. So I was really enjoying that and driving the car, which was, is quite fast as well, . So I was kind of like really enjoying driving this like, brand new car. So I've been very grateful cause that experience has brought me that, and the garage was near the, was near the beach. So, um, yeah, took my garage, went for a walk on the beach and I've enjoyed driving this higher car for a few days, which I've been, you know, very kindly given from my insurance company. So that's my gratitude

Speaker 2 (00:29:18) -  it, it's not always the case that you get a car that you go, ah, this is amazing. I just wanna keep this

Speaker 4 (00:29:24) - Think take as long as you like this in mind, don't have a problem,

Speaker 3 (00:29:27) - . And they sent me a text to say my car was repaired. I was like,

Speaker 4 (00:29:32) - We've got good news is the good news. You need it for another six weeks? No problem. It's like,

Speaker 3 (00:29:36) - I'll pretend I've not seen it for a little bit. ,

Speaker 2 (00:29:39) - Ah, you know, that's only ever happened to me once I, um, I think it is, yeah, there's a bit of a coincidence there with, uh, when your car gets hit by another driver. But I had this lovely b BMW Zed four and it was like the M series. It was completely decked out and it was like, I just don't wanna give this back my head. , . I love it. What about yourself, wey? What's your gratitude? Oh

Speaker 4 (00:30:09) - No, I know you'd come to me. Um, oh, so believe it or not, the fir the first one is at the time of recording being that this, this being in May, we are now, we just have what our third bank holiday, something like that and mm-hmm . So I'm, I'm, I'm very grateful for that extra day. And, and, and purely because when we have those extra, that extra day we plan to do stuff, do, do you know what I mean? So sometimes weekends fly past, but we're like, actually no, we're off Monday as well. So we're in the past maybe we think, oh, I won't do anything Sunday cause I've gotta get ready for all the goals I've gotta get ready for school on Monday and all the rest of it. So, so those bank holidays, very much so. Um, the other thing that I'm really grateful for is, um, and this is, this has been a long time coming, I can get Lyfts home with my daughter now. So she passed a, a driving test, which was fantastic. Um, and it, it's just not her thing driving just wasn't, it was frustrating her. Um, but she passed a test and just being able for just what's really nice for her to be able to say, don't we, well, why don't you mom go out. I don't mind picking you up later. It's just that it's a, it's a, it's a, I know it's a small thing, but for us it, it's been been brilliant. So really, really like that.

Speaker 2 (00:31:19) - One of those

Speaker 4 (00:31:20) - Love

Speaker 3 (00:31:21) - That amazing tables are turned, aren't they?

Speaker 4 (00:31:24) - , I know. Yeah. Pick us up from the pub. Lovely. Thanks very much. So that's good. And then the, the other thing that, and it always bring it back to the family, but the, um, one of my daughters doing her GCSEs at the moment, one of 'em is doing her A levels and the fact that they just are pushing back and going, no, I can't today dad cause I'm revising. I really love the fact that they're both mature enough to say, yes, I would like to go out, but you know what, let's just get this out the way first. I'm, I'm brilliant. Love that. What about yourself, Jonathan?

Speaker 5 (00:31:55) - Well, um, uh, fortnight ago my son started his first proper job in the sense that he, he, the, the started a job doing the thing that he went to university to do. So ever since he was, ever since he was, um, seven, he's always wa he's wanted to be a designer. And this has been a thread that has kind of run through his life. And he managed to, he got on a, a university course, but then spent a year working in, in, in hospitality doing housekeeping, which has felt a, a long way away from, uh, from, from, from what he wanted to do with his, uh, deal with his life. But two weeks ago, two weeks ago today he started, um, he started his, his first role as a, as a graduate designer. And, uh, not only, not only has he got the, as he got the role, but he's moved into a house, you know what it's like, he's moved into a, into a house sharing with five other, five other people, . So it was a bit of a risk in a place. So he had three weeks to find somewhere to live. But the people that he's living with are absolutely lovely and, uh, kind of the, the, the, it's just, it all works out really, really well. So I'm really grateful for that, that he's kind of, he's, he's started the thing that he has always wanted to do and all of the, all of the pieces seems to have dropped into place as he's moved away to his new town. So yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:33:17) - That's where, where's he gone to?

Speaker 5 (00:33:19) - He has, he's working in Rexel when he's living in Chester.

Speaker 4 (00:33:23) - Oh, oh, nice. Good. Well, Chester's lovely. Really, really lovely. Chester. So fantastic. Good work. That's all good.

Speaker 2 (00:33:30) - I, um, when everyone, when anyone mentions Rexer Mark, I do think of that the program on, um,

Speaker 4 (00:33:37) - You talk about Ryan, Ryan Reynolds on the football

Speaker 2 (00:33:39) - Show, but um, um, for our wedding anniversary, this is not my gratitude moment, it's just a story. Well,

Speaker 4 (00:33:45) - You're not grateful for being married, Amanda. Listen to this ,

Speaker 2 (00:33:50) - He'll

Speaker 4 (00:33:50) - Be in trouble. I just thought I've mentioned my wedding. Not that I'm grateful for that . I can always edit it later, mate. It's not a problem.

Speaker 2 (00:33:59) - We, um, we stayed, we stayed at a place called Alton Hall actually, and we were, uh, there was me, Amanda and, uh, Woody obviously came along with us and we were just sitting there having, uh, having something to eat and the ream, um, manager walked past and then we just saw a steady stream of the players walk past. Of course it all went over Amanda's ed and it usually would go over my eggs, so I'm not into football. But watching that program, I said, that's the ream manager. She went, who? What, where?

Speaker 4 (00:34:29) - Do you know what I'm laughing because I know you have No, no, not even a past interest in football. And I just love that in my head. All, all that happened there was these players walked past and you went that's that bloke off the tele. Yeah. Not there. , he's nothing to do with football. That's that bloke off Netflix or whatever he is on Disney or whatever he is on. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:34:47) - Yeah. It's Disney, isn't it? That's right. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:34:51) - Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (00:34:53) - Well, shall I, shall I tell you what my um,

Speaker 5 (00:34:56) - Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (00:34:58) - I've got two, sorry. Only cuz one nothing today. Right? So the weekend, it, it was made  similar to West is, right? I just had this amazing long weekend. A couple of weekends ago we went to, um, a place called Swinton Estate in North Yorkshire. And this was all, um, this was all coincidental actually. I decided to go there because the lady, um, the, the chef, executive chef who used to work, um, at Boathouse four still does, she's chef, partner at Boathouse four in Portsmouth, had gone back to Swinton, um, estate as the exec chef. And I thought, oh, I really like it. Fancy that. So he went up there, never saw her by the way, but it is absolutely gorgeous this place. Um, so I'd highly recommend that. And my other quick one is, would he save the rabbit's life today?  that, the headline

Speaker 4 (00:35:55) - And how did Woody save a rabbit's life?

Speaker 2 (00:35:58) - He saved a rabbit's life. Uh, there was a cat at the side that was playing around with a wild rabbit and Woody went over to the cat and sh and scared him enough that he let go of the rabbit and the rabbit's free to live another day. Good work.

Speaker 4 (00:36:10) - Oh, amazing.

Speaker 2 (00:36:11) - That's exactly what I said to Woody as well. Good work

Speaker 4 (00:36:15) - . See in, in my head, I just had Woody being scared of a rabbit, if I might,

Speaker 2 (00:36:21) - But Well, yes, he, he'd be scared of most things, but, uh, he didn't me proud today. Yeah. He saved a rabbit's life.

Speaker 2 (00:36:34) - Uh, you know, I wanna, um, understand a little bit more about, um, diagnosing your self-care, Gemma. So it sounds like you went on this journey to understand and, and test things and work things out and not, not everyone has got, I suppose, the capability or capacity to do that. And presumably that's the role that you feel now to try and support people to go, let's understand your authentic self. Let who, you know, in my mind I'm thinking people put on this sort of mask that says, this is the person I think I should be. And you are about stripping that back to go, let's try and understand who you really are.

Speaker 3 (00:37:20) - Yeah, that's it. It really is about taking that mask off. And I think for a lot of, certainly for me, I, um, until I like read and researched and spoke to people that they got this stuff, um, I was an introvert. I was H S p I was highly sensitive trying to live in an extrovert of nonsensitive world. So the world is not designed for introverts and highly sensitives because we are a small percentage of the population. And so up until that moment that I had that realization, um, yeah, like you say, I was putting a mask on and I think a lot of people put a mask on. Um, and it was, I think the moment for me, I'll tell you like when the, the mo, there was two moments that like really dropped. So one was when I was, I was getting counseling when I had, um, when I was going through like that anxiety that I like, it was probably, I can't even think when it was probably around 20 14, 20 15, um, I'd moved into a, um, moved into a new role in, in the organization I was working in and all, like all this anxiety came out and um, and I was getting some counseling and I can remember the counselor just looked at me and was like, well, you are an introvert so you are gonna find these things draining.

Speaker 3 (00:38:43) - And I was like, oh, . And it wasn't until like we just sometimes need to meet someone that like validates our experience and then we're like, oh, okay. And then the second big defining moment for this was, um, I, I go away on retreats a lot, like on my own. So I've always, I've tried going to retreats with other like run by other people and I did a really great, um, mindfulness retreat with Ed Halliwell and I've, you know, I've done retreats with other people, but I've always found I get much more out of it when I go away on my own. Um, so I just take myself away, like find an Airbnb somewhere like in nature or by a beach somewhere, take myself away for a retreat. Um, and I was driving to this retreat and it was on a podcast that I was listening to and she said, when we are H S P, we feel, and she said a, a few statements and I thought, that's me.

Speaker 3 (00:39:37) - Like what is this HSP term? And um, and I went and researched that and took the H S P test that's available on Elaine Aaron's website for anyone listening. Um, and realized I was H S P as well and I was like, oh, hang on a moment. So I think those were the two defining moments. So I almost needed someone to sign post and say like, here's some things to look at. Um, and that really then sort of shaped that journey for me of going, okay, maybe I need something a little bit different here. Maybe I need to connect with what it is that I need. And I think having those people sign posting and having those role models. So a friend of mine did a TEDx two years before I did. Um, and she was really like, she's an introvert as well, and she was like, I'm an introvert so this is the way I'm gonna be doing it.

Speaker 3 (00:40:25) - And it was like, oh, okay, there's, there is a different way. So you almost need those people to like sign post it for you. And then I can think you can then start that journey yourself, um, and start to kind of test things and go, okay, let's try this. Or let's, you know, I tried for, for um, a couple of years I thought, right, I'm gonna try having a week where I go to London and a week where I don't, I'm gonna try having a week where I stay over in London and I go like walk in the parks in the evenings, like I'm gonna try some different things, trial and error. Um, I then went down to part-time, so I was part-time working financial services, part-time running my business. I was like, right, let's try this. So I think, yeah, I think we need like those people to sign post and then we, and then it's like going through that process of, right, let's try this.

Speaker 3 (00:41:16) - Does this work? Let's try this. Does this work? And everyone is different. Like everyone. So, um, I'm sure, I'm sure you guys have all like, come across strengths, tools like the, the strengths profile. Like there's 60 strengths that come out in like a unique combination for everybody. So even the tools show us that everyone has their own unique way, um, and that everyone needs something different. So it's about, yeah, that inner knowing, getting in touch with what you need and then testing that out and going, Hey, did this work? Did this work? Like where do I need to go?

Speaker 2 (00:41:51) - I'm just thinking from, so there's two things Anne, why, why did you feel compelled to, um, try and be different from your authentic self in the first place? Was that an expectation from the role the business? Yeah. Or you know, your peers. What, what was the sort of driver behind that?

Speaker 3 (00:42:18) - That is a great question and I was writing a chapter in a friend's book last week about neurodiversity and it took me back to a moment I had when I was five. So I'll, I'll share this experience , and it's gonna sound really weird, but you'll see how it's connected. Um, so when I was five, I remember sitting in school assembly and this healthy eating company had come into the school and they'd brought these apples and they'd given everyone an apple in assembly and they were like a kind of a theater production company, um, from what I can remember. And we all had this apple and they were kind of like talking us through this experience of eating this apple. And then they said, right, we are gonna ask you what eating that apple felt like. What words would you use to describe the apple?

Speaker 3 (00:43:11) - And I can remember seeing the woman look around the room, there was probably like 300 of us in the school and I was, come to me , not me, not me, not me, not me, not me. And she came to me and she said, what word would you use to describe the apple? And I was such a quiet, shy child, like there's no way I would've even spoken up in class, let alone an assembly. And I just remember like going really red and like the panic, like my, my heart was like, and I just went nice . Um, and then she went, nice, what kind of a word is nice? You could have used a better word than that. So that's just kind of one moment as a child where I wasn't really seen for like, especially at school, wasn't seen that I was actually quite sensitive.

Speaker 3 (00:43:57) - And if, if I'd have been asked to draw a picture, I probably could have drawn a magnificent picture of all the words to, you know, describe that apple. So I think for a lot of us, it's that childhood conditioning. Um, and it's those moments that we take on, we take on those words. Like n to seven is the most, you know, is when our brain is developing and we take on those things and we deeply push them inside. Um, and that is what makes us mask. So I kind of carry that belief not just through that but various other situations, um, that I must try and fit in with everyone else. I must try and keep up with everyone else. I must, I must be more extroverted because that's the way that you, you know, that's the way you do things is, you know, um, my school report always said the quiet, conscientious child. Well, and I always took that as a criticism that I must do better at that

Speaker 2 (00:44:45) - The whole, you know, that that really opens up a whole can of worms about societal impact as well. Mm-hmm. , because every re reward is given for the people that shout the loudest of, you know, that, you know, you only have to look at it in a sales and marketing role as well. You know, you're rewarded for being the loudest, the brashest, you know, so we, we do, you know, we put stuff in place that we connect with that behavior to go, oh, that must be good cuz everyone's benefiting out of it. And if I'm not that way, there's something wrong with me because, you know, in your situation I was told in a negative way, a better word than nice, you know, in front of everyone, which doesn't help anyone. But we do that all the time. And, and so through adult life we're having to unlearn, to relearn, to go it's fine to be our authentic selves.

Speaker 4 (00:45:39) - But a lot of that though, and I I totally agree with you, I was gonna say something very similar. So if, if I reflect on doing, um, insights for example, back in the day, uh, and I know it's not the way it should be, but I reckon the majority of people that look at that think, okay, well the reds reds, they'll be the boss then, right? They're the ones like you say the the extrovert, they're, they're the go getters, the greens, which are more introvert, more people focused. Yeah. They're the nice ones that are quiet ones are sitting, but I know it's never, it's never presented like that. But I, I would wager in a lot of cases people go away with this message of what a reds are gonna be the successful business leaders, right? The greens are nice people to have around the yellows are a bit entertained and the blues are thinkers. And, and that's, and it literally, it almost literally puts you into those brackets and, and to get to where, or get to these situations that Gemma is talking about where we can actually all be ourselves and be successful being ourselves. That's like turning around an oil tanker, right? That, that, that's gonna take a long time because it's almost been ingrained for so long. Going back to your point, Caleb,

Speaker 2 (00:46:55) - I I'm also thinking now about if, if we want everyone to be their authentic self, how does that work with, um, adaptability in an organization where the sort of, the utopian view is that roles will only, um, exist for a certain amount of time and, and actually we look after the person that adds value to an organization they might need to flex, um, in their role and, and their ability to do that. How does that, how would that work? Or how would that harmonize when, when we've got such a different workforce and individuals in that workforce because we're still in a place in organizations where skills are the primary driver and it, and things are changing. Um, but I think that takes a more of an open-minded approach.

Speaker 5 (00:47:58) - I think that as far as adaptability is concerned, um, the way you phrased the question, Caleb, that and the language that we use suggests that the team of people need to be adaptable, um, in alignment with the, the, the, the needs and wishes of the leader. And I think that perhaps leaders need to be more adaptable in their approach to how they facilitate their team. Um, so that that team members have, um, an opportunity, more opportunity to explore with one another how they're gonna achieve their outcomes as opposed to being perhaps, um, uh, told how they need to be adaptable in order to achieve the, the, the, the, the target in in that, in that sense.

Speaker 4 (00:48:43) - Yeah, I love that there's something in that for me about that whole, you know, I need to be the last to speak if I'm the leader in the, in the room. Cuz you're absolutely right, Jonathan, that that whole piece is, I really want your opinion, but here's mine now, now I want yours. And you think now it needs to be the other way around, right? Because they're just, you're just not gonna get that. You're gonna get whatever they think you want to hear.

Speaker 2 (00:49:06) - Yeah. I, I was listening to another podcast and I can't remember which one it was traitor actually, um, , but there was, um, there was a quote in there that, um, and it, it was about, um, uh, leadership behavior and the guy said, it's really difficult being a human being. And I sort of tend to agree with that, but the only word that I would add into there, it's, it's difficult being a good human being and it's difficult being a good leader. And I think that then, um, is sort of mirrored by what Johnson's saying is it's really easy to be a bad leader and go, this is how it needs to be. But to be a really good leader, then you need to be flexible. You need to understand everyone and you need to understand, you know, what, what the people's best looks like and their authentic selves look like. And that that takes time and effort and energy to be a good human. And that's why a lot of managers don't do it because it's easier to go, this is the way, and, you know, we've gotta be better than that because that is our superpower. You know, that's, that's not AI's superpower, it's ours as a human species.

Speaker 2 (00:50:30) - I think we're getting towards, um, the end of our show, but what I really wanna and um, explore is what's on your playlist at the minute. What

Speaker 4 (00:50:38) - About yourself, Claire? What should we be listening to or watching?

Speaker 2 (00:50:42) - Um, I have recently discovered something called Agent G P t, it's, I'm just so all over this, right? So, uh, without properly geeking out. So, um, chat g p t relies on you having a conversation with, um, with chat G P T and putting in the next prompt agent. G P t almost self learns. And so you start off with, um, uh, a directional, like it could be a vision or a purpose or what you wanna achieve, and it will go through systematically and question itself what it thinks needs to happen and it keeps questioning. So it comes up with an action list. I put in the other day, I put in, um, create the world's best workplace where everyone thrives, which is what Mind Boost is trying to achieve. I was absolutely blown away with the responses that it kept, it, it was almost like an HRDs manuscript that it was coming back with. Um, and you know, you can't take everything quite literally, but it was a a, a li an amazing starter to go. This could be the foundation of, of an HR strategy here. So just things in that space are moving so quickly. So that would be my recommendation if you, you know, you're just sort of starting in, um, ai

Speaker 4 (00:52:11) - We would and with without we have not got time to even start touching on AI on this show. Absolutely not. But I, I thought about you earlier there, there was a, um, there's a, an article come up on BBC News today, and I dunno if you've seen it yet, but the, the, the two people they're talking to a guy called Sam Altman, who's chief executive of Chat, g p t Open, but they open ai. That's it. Yeah. Um, and there's another guy who's the, um, executive of Google DeepMind. Yeah. And they've said, ar artificial intelligence AI could lead to the extinction of humanity. And that, that's what those two have come out and said today. They said mitigate, mitigating the risk of ex extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside, alongside pandemics and nuclear wars. And that's come from the top two guys that are running a AI companies.

Speaker 4 (00:52:59) - So basically what they're saying is then we need some sort of control and get ahold of it quite soon. I thought it was a fascinating headline, you know, for the, for the, those guys not scaremongering. Cause those guys are literally coming out going, yeah, it, it's accelerating a, a pace and we need to look at what, what's actually happening. And it's fascinating to hear you say cuz chat g p T, right? I think G what does g pt we might not G P t it. G P T actually stands for, um, basically pre-generated content, right? So it's stuff that already exists, but what you are talking about is, is learning from itself, which is a whole nother level again. Right? You're looking it up now, aren't you? , but it it, it does, but G P T actually means, I think it's, I can't remember off the top of my head what it means for, but it is pre, it's learning from stuff that already exists. Basically it's looking through content much in the same way as we do when we reference it.

Speaker 2 (00:53:56) - Pre-trained. Sort of

Speaker 4 (00:53:57) - Pre-trained. Thank you. There you

Speaker 2 (00:53:58) - Go. Um, so there's large, large language, um, models that they're all using. So there's, there's intelligent behind it. I, so I haven't read the article. I sort of tend to think this is, um, an ask covering exercise to go, we've created this monster. Yeah. But we've got no control now how people use it or spin off new software from it. And so again, the example I've just given about, um, agent G P T, so I, I actually think humans are the challenge in factor here because you know, you've either got this great tool that can be used for bad things or this great tool that can be used to enhance everyone. Mm-hmm. . And so what Sam Altman and the others are doing are just trying to manage that a little bit to go, we need a framework around this else. We're gonna have an awful lot of humans behaving badly because, and at a, um, at a 10 x level because they've got the superpower or a super suit now to be able to do that.

Speaker 2 (00:55:09) - Um, and so, you know, there's a genuine concern cuz again, if I was really naive, I could have used that. I've got my HR strategy, I'm a command and conquer sort of, uh, you know, h r d and gone. There you go. Get on with it. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, and this is, you know, these conversations that we're having today are invaluable, right? We've already said as a human being, one of our amazing abilities is to flex and to read things and to pull on different levers as we need them. And we do that so much quicker based on gut feeling and behavior and, you know, just a feeling that's our skill. And so, you know, let's not let that go. There's gonna be lots of amazing stuff that's happened, but I think what Sam Altman's saying is we just need to be really carefully cuz it could spiral out of control.

Speaker 4 (00:56:07) - Yeah. Great. Great. What about yourself, Jonathan? What's on the list? Cool. Nothing quite as deep and scary as that.  I've been, uh, bit left it. I apologize throwing that in, but I do see lunch time at all. Gotta bring that. Not at

Speaker 5 (00:56:22) - All. All not at all. I've been enjoying, I've been binge watching Ted Lasso, which is, ah,

Speaker 4 (00:56:27) - My heart.

Speaker 5 (00:56:29) - The, the, the, the, the bringing out the, uh, the wonderfulness of humanity. It's, uh, it is very heartwarming to watch. So yeah, I'm, I'm about halfway through series three now is brilliant.

Speaker 4 (00:56:40) - Yeah. We've got the last one tomorrow, I think. I think that's allegedly the last one ever. There you go. Oh, so, uh, yeah, that's coming out on the Wednesday. Yeah. Third first. So, uh, we shall see, and then I'm gonna bring us crashing back down to Earth after your loveliness of Ted Lasso. Um, we've been binge watching, binge watching, um, once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland, which is on BBC two, um, documentary, all about the troubles in Northern Ireland. And I, I know my history is horrendous. I know nothing about it. Um, it, it is just brilliant of, of, uh, of a documentary, um, interviews with people that were there at the time and, and you realize how fairly modern history that is. And, you know, and, and the very fact that you've got fairly modern history means that you've got so much footage, historical

Speaker 2 (00:57:32) - Drama.

Speaker 4 (00:57:33) - Oh, it's, it's, it's cr crazy. The amount of real, real footage they've gotten. You. What, what I'll say, what I like, I'll be careful what I say because I think being a a a, a kid born in the sort of early seventies, all I know of the troubles was the IRA and how they were just the, the worst thing ever and how they're all trying to bomb us every Christmas and all the rest of it. That's what I knew. And then this show says, okay, yeah, but there's two sides to this. So then you've got interviews with the IRA going, yeah, but we were doing that because of this. And I'm not, certainly not taking sides one way or another, but covering all of like the, the, uh, hunger strikes and all of those, it's absolutely mind blowing stuff. Really, really highly recommended, well worth watch.

Speaker 2 (00:58:20) - Wow. I do love things like that. So I, I think Jonathan, over to you to wrap us up,

Speaker 5 (00:58:28) - . So I wanna say thank you for Gemma for joining us. Thank you to Jennifer for joining us, um, and giving insight into energy alignment. It's been really fascinating to think through what that means and how we can apply that in our, uh, in our everyday lives. In summary, we've been thinking about how we can be more authentically ourselves on a day-to-day basis and how, what a positive impact that can have on our life and work. Um, that starts with us being aware of the things that, um, uh, put us in a good place and eliminating some of the things that perhaps don't serve us so well. So I, I wanna encourage us all as a result of, of, of what we've heard today, to get interested in what works for us and what doesn't, what serves us and what doesn't. And, uh, to go back to some of the things that we've perhaps done in the past, um, perhaps we've done a psychometric tool, we've done a strengths inventory, we've done M B T I, a whole host of stuff to go back to those and rediscover what they, uh, can teach us about ourselves and then start to explore having learned those thi re re re got reacquainted with those things start to make changes so that we can spend more time in the places that work for us and begin to, uh, enjoy more and more being ourselves on a day to day basis.